Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:15 pm GMT by lwestatbus
(This post applies to FL ring games but feel free to reply in a broader context.)
I'm comfortable with the concept of raising for three reasons:
1. You have an extraordinarily strong hand late in the hand and are collecting your payoff.
2. You are trying to eliminate marginal hands early on, including preflop.
3. You are raising for information.
I also know that there are some cases when it is correct to raise just because the math supports the action even though your cards are marginal. Does anyone have a quick and dirty rundown on those circumstances?
Thanks.
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Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:41 pm GMT by Dave B
BB w/ A  3 4 early limpers button raises all call-6 way action and 12 bets in the pot.
Flop k 8 3 
Now, you have 9 clean out for the absolute nuts, plus another 2 w/ the 3s if no one flopped a set and maybe 3 more w/ the A. With 6 in the pot and a good chance that you will be raised and anyone w/ a pair having pot odds, you can raise and cap this flop.
Math, you are at least 36% to win this hand. Each dollar you put in is likely to grow the pot by 4-6 times. So even with out the other outs, you should definately raise and reraise this hand. Each $1 you put in will get you will get you $2.16 with 5 other callers (.36%*$1*6).
Now, assuming you miss the turn and there are 4 players (3 others) remaining, on the turn you are 19%. Since there are not at least 6 in the pot, you should not bet or raise her-based purely on math alone. Each $1 you put in here will get you .$76 back (.19*$1*4).
Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:46 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Ugh...Dave types faster.
To sum up, any time your pot equity is higher than the percentage you're contributing to the pot, you should raise.
Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:54 pm GMT by lwestatbus
| Sean_in_NJ wrote: | Ugh...Dave types faster.
To sum up, any time your pot equity is higher than the percentage you're contributing to the pot, you should raise. |
Many thanks Dave. Great answer (as usual).
Sean, Any more examples? I guess I could have rephrased my original question to be, "What are examples of situations when raising contributes more pot equity that the percentage you're contributing?"
Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:37 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| lwestatbus wrote: | | Sean, Any more examples? |
Unfortunately, the example I was going to state was pretty much the same as the one Dave used. There are other situations where you might raise to buy yourself outs and free cards, but these aren't really "betting for value."
Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:19 pm GMT by Dave B
another odd example would be raising w/ a gutshot or 2nd pair in multiway pots. This can effectively disguise your hand and result in REALLY getting paid off when you hit-even if initially the odds werent in your favor. However, this only works against good players who make solid reads.
For example:
89 suited, raised preflop after and you just call. Flop A65, you flopped a gutshot straight and someone bets out, by raising, knowing that the preflop raiser behind you either has a strong ace or might fold KK QQ-so it would be a reasonable play w/ AJ or the like. You need to be prepared to call 3 bets or a cap, but now there is NO WAY that they put you on that draw-again, I am talking MULTI way pots.
So, you hit your miracle 7 (8% of the time here, 8% of the river) for the stone cold nuts. From here, if you are against AA, 34, AK, 2 pair or a set and you collect 4-6 BIG bets from multiple players on the turn and river.
So, "foolish" play costing you 2-3 small bets on 1:12 odds gets your 18 BIG bets or more when you hit.
BTW-if you make this play and hit, as you stack your chips make some crack about trying to buy a free card. The preflop raiser will go off about getting no respect, you will look like an idiot and get paid off handsomely from there.
Posted Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:42 pm GMT by supafrey
These are hard to spot - the oesf draws are usually the most common, followed by nut flush draws with 3+ people in the pot.
Another semi common one is KQ on a JTx board, where you're certain that you'd be winning with a pair of queens or kings, as well.
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