Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:42 am GMT by Eusebio
Hi Guys!
Again I would need some advice...
We are having every first Week of the month a homegame with some friends and the "problem" is, that i am crushing those games... i am not saying that i am a very good player or something but the statistic tells the story:
We buy in for 50€ with blinds NL .25/.50, normal cashgame, and eventhough i do not get very lucky with my cards, i know when i have the best hand and i always find somebody willing to pay me off.
I go home from those games with an average of 150, so i am winning 100€ every time.
We used to be 8 players and it started this month: One announced that he wont play anymore and for the upcoming month another guy told us that hes not willing to give money to me.
I am playing pretty calm, meaning i dont blame them when i win a big pot or anything...
The question is simple: should i lose deliberatly?
thanks
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Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:49 am GMT by shorn7
| Quote: | | The question is simple: should i lose deliberatly? |
Well, only if you think this will be the only way for the game to continue. But, overall I don't think this is a good idea. What you probably should do is try and find another local game that fits your skill level a little better.
Bottom line, your friends have to either get better, get willing to lose, or you have to find a different game.
Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:29 am GMT by jimmer
| Eusebio wrote: | | The question is simple: should i lose deliberatly? |
I think you need to ask the question; why do you play these home games.
If it's to make money, then no, If it's a social thing then....... maybe, yes.
I was in the predicament a few years ago. There is a core group of mates (about 10 of us) who hardly ever see each other because we now work all over the place etc.
Therefore i started a home game at my house. We each put in £5 and winner takes all. Sometimes we arre chatting so much, we don't play much poker. The point is, it's a social thing and nobody really cares if they win or lose.
However, I've been along to another home game with another lot of mates. The stakes are bigger and nobody chats, (inless it's poker related). This to me, is just a way to increase my bankroll.
Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:15 pm GMT by Eusebio
It is a social thing...
We are chatting making jokes etc and we said 50, because its an amount nobody misses if he/she loses it, but its not that you dont care if you lose it either...
i used to train myself in this games, trying to read people, trying to calculate and keep in mind how big the pot is, how the odds are, etc.
The group was joking the last time, that they wouldnt call me next time etc. they were just joking, but we have a proverb, that says, that every joke has a bit of the truth.. so i started softplaying them... but i was still winning...
so the only way is to lose... but laying down a straight hurts deep down in my soul 
I guess this will be the only way to keep the game running...
actually i use this money to buy things like decks, etc... i just bought a pokertable, but of course those things are not that present like the hole in their wallet..
How do you think of trying to teach them, at least what i know about it, so everybody should be on the same level
Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:24 pm GMT by Jauron
Early on when we had a lot of bad players and nobody really knew what they were doing, I was winning most nights. I tried to play up the "lucky" card to keep them focused on that.
I also did and continue to always make the person I'm beating feel as good about it as I can. Listen to them moan about they had to call and reinforce their bad habits. Give them a look like sorry it had to be you or tell them "I would have done the same thing". Those types of players aren't as common anymore but that old habit comes back when I play in casinos against players I don't know. You want players who don't win to be as happy about it as possible. Never rub it in, never make them feel humiliated, give them a reason to come back.
Our home games used to be pretty big, over time they have shrunk. We've had to get new blood in there a bunch of times. That is probably the best solution to your problem, finding new players.
I wouldn't consider loosing on purpose myself, too many other options to try first.
As for teaching them, GL man. I'm still of the opinion that most players don't want to get better, they only want to win. Tough to teach someone with that kind of mentality.
Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:13 pm GMT by mindgame
You have to have a losing session every once in a while, and people have to know you've lost.
You don't have to do it by laying down winners (although it's been done), but you can be in wrong and too often. Violate all the precepts you have learned to follow and you can create all the "bad luck" your opponents would like to see you experience.
This is part of the overhead you have to pay in homegames to keep the games from collapsing, or keep yourself from being un-invited. When home games were my only opportunities to play the game I found it a delicate balance to avoid looking as though I was "crushing" the game. Sometimes it just means getting out of the way of a big pot (ie, you're on a nut flush draw against 3 others and getting excellent pot odds to stay in) so that someone else will take it down--this is particularly the case when you can steer the pot to a big loser who may just drop out if he gets beaten up too frequently.
Something that can help is to have someone host the game and take a "rake" of 1 or 2 euro each pot. This will guarentee them a winning session that night, even if they lose at poker portion. If someone else can be assured a nice profit for a night's session then you can let them do the work of organizing it all and it looks much less like you are bringing in the sheep to be fleeced.
Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:58 pm GMT by jimmer
| Eusebio wrote: | | How do you think of trying to teach them, at least what i know about it, so everybody should be on the same level |
Nah, the fact that you are on this forum asking the question means you are taking your poker seriously.
If it's a social thing, there are gonna be plenty of mates who don't really care, or can't be bothered.
Posted Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:03 pm GMT by jimmer
| Jauron wrote: | | Give them a look like sorry it had to be you or tell them "I would have done the same thing". |
I like this idea. Nice 1
Posted Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:56 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Jauron wrote: | | I also did and continue to always make the person I'm beating feel as good about it as I can. Listen to them moan about they had to call and reinforce their bad habits. Give them a look like sorry it had to be you or tell them "I would have done the same thing". Those types of players aren't as common anymore but that old habit comes back when I play in casinos against players I don't know. You want players who don't win to be as happy about it as possible. Never rub it in, never make them feel humiliated, give them a reason to come back. |
I agree with this. It's also nice to say things at cash-out like "You know, one of these days my luck's going to run out." or "I got really lucky tonight, maybe I should play the lottery." It's always good for a chuckle and makes them think that you're just running on "lucky" cards. It will give them more incentive to try to be there when you're not so "lucky" to retrieve the money they've lost to you.
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:58 am GMT by weirdofreek
Why not pour some of the money back into the game? If you made $100 then spend $50 on pizza and beer or buy nicer chips and cards. If your friends see the money going back into the game they may stick around. We play a $20 cash game weekly and sometimes I am the only one to cash out at the end but my friends keep coming cause I use part of the winnings to buy beer and pizza. They can get a really nice buzz and some pizza for 20 bucks try doing that on the town.
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:05 pm GMT by groton
yah the Put stuff back deal is a good deal.
I from time to time buy Late Night Dinner/Breakfest for the gang when i win but we play a one table turny set up so its more random who win's
or i'll buy someone into the game.
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:33 pm GMT by WD-40
One thing you might try is change the format from a cash game to a tournament (every now and then).
Have the buy-in be $30 to $50 bucks (whatever the guys are willing), and payout the top 3 finishers.
That way, even if you win the tournament, two other guys finish in the money and everyone thinks, "if I can just finish in the top three"...
I have a home game once a month and we always play tournaments, its just a nice friendly game, and it's not just one person walking away with all the money.
Good luck
Posted Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:50 pm GMT by Kearsed
I remember when I "thought" I was good in holdem along with all my other friends. We would never raise pre-flop, hardly bluff etc...until 1 of us learned how to play. Whenver he would raise before the flop we all thought he had monsters. It took us a couple sessions to adapt, but everyone caught on very quickly.
Don't lose on purpose, if anything, teach your friends.
Posted Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:08 pm GMT by Eusebio
Thanks for your advice guys!
I decided to buy the pizzas this time and i told everybody that if they wanted, we could sit together and I will show thm what I know...
One guy was pretty happy about it and we will sit on and go through the most important topics...
We are playing on thursday and i decided that i wont lose deliberatly (at least not this time)... lets see how things turn out...
Posted Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:07 pm GMT by Eusebio
Hi!
I just wanted you inform about the outcome of everything.
We played last thursday, started at 8.30 p.m. everything started out fine, I was down a bit because of softplaying a tough beat just before the pizzas came put me down from 50 to 20...
ok, i payed the pizzas and we did a break of approx. half an hour and it was like 10.30 when we started playing again... the next hour did not bring any hand and the stacks of the players i talked about in the 1st post were growing and growing and suddenly one of them said, that he will leave at 12... one other was driving with him, so the guy had to leave too and another 2 players used him as a Taxi... 4 players hitting the road after they net a nice profit... in the last hand with them another guy went broke and so we were just 3 to continue... luckily the dealer decided to join so we could go on...
ok, lesson learned:
Never ever will I softplay anybody, nor making any kind acts...
Nexttime it will be war 
Posted Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:01 pm GMT by TheSalche
regardless of what goes on dont lose deliberately, if its a social thing then keep buying pizzas/beer and possibly lower the buy-in as suggested
try to mix it up too, try a 10 or 20 freezeout tournament style, with a looser payout structure (not a ton of $ for first ... since that'll probably be you).
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