Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:40 am GMT by crack
Ok, I would like your comments on this 30/60 razz hand I played last week.
I will not tell you the results and I would like comments on every street please.
FullTiltPoker Game #1320238204: Table Cartgate - $30/$60 Ante $5 - Limit Razz - 18:33:51 ET - 2006/11/28
Seat 4: Arar ($360)
Seat 5: MR_SHARX ($1,375.50)
Seat 6: WARDROPS ($1,248)
Seat 7: OnlyPlayRagz ($1,111.50)
Arar antes $5
MR_SHARX antes $5
WARDROPS antes $5
OnlyPlayRagz antes $5
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to Arar 
Dealt to MR_SHARX 
Dealt to WARDROPS   
Dealt to OnlyPlayRagz 
Arar is high with
Arar brings in for $10
MR_SHARX completes it to $30
WARDROPS raises to $60
OnlyPlayRagz folds
Arar calls $50
MR_SHARX raises to $90
WARDROPS raises to $120
OnlyPlayRagz: oh my
Arar calls $60
MR_SHARX calls $30
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to Arar 
Dealt to MR_SHARX 
Dealt to WARDROPS 
MR_SHARX bets $30
WARDROPS calls $30
Arar calls $30
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to Arar 
Dealt to MR_SHARX 
Dealt to WARDROPS 
MR_SHARX bets $60
WARDROPS has 15 seconds left to act
WARDROPS calls $60
Arar adds $600
Arar folds
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to MR_SHARX 
Dealt to WARDROPS 
MR_SHARX: Arar going for BOAT
WARDROPS checks
MR_SHARX bets $60
WARDROPS calls $60
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to WARDROPS 
WARDROPS checks
MR_SHARX bets $60
WARDROPS??????
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Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:55 pm GMT by aaronw
I hate when you get good starting hands then every card you get after that is either a face card or pairs one of your whole cards.
Disclaimer- I suck at Razz and only started playing it like 2 weeks ago.
Anyway, I think that if you called on sixth street, you have to call on the river because: 1) you improved your hand slightly and 2) the odds you are getting are very high. By just looking at your up cards it doesn't look like you have much of anything so he may be betting and just hope you fold. I think that since you called on sixth street you have to call here or you shouldn't have called on sixth. I like how you played the hand though. I don't think there is much you can do when you start off with a really good hand and continue to get crap on every street thereafter.
Disclaimer 2- I really suck at Razz and don't take my comments to heart.
Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:11 pm GMT by TheSalche
I am also not a Razz player but I'll give it a shot
Seems like you need to raise 4th here for information. If he 3-bets you, or calls and leads into you again on 5th when he catches well and you catch not so well, its probably time to throw in the towel.
Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:13 pm GMT by crack
Interesting point, Salche however I see a flaw in that.
He sees a 9 up and although I don't think he is an overly amazing razz player he knows what I am trying to do and I can see a 3 bet coming straight back at me here and if not then a definite bet on 4th if he hits any card lower than a 9, so although a raise for information is a good play, it depends if it will actually work. In this situation I don't think it will. Also, remember we have a guy who is obviously on tilt here calling 2 bets cold with a K up then calling the cap, so if we can keep him in, even with a J however unlikely it is (I thought he would have folded) then our hand has even more value.
Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:50 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Fold 5th IMO. You likely have to catch almost perfect twice against Sharx's hand to win.
Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:52 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
You gotta ask yourself what hands is is likely to 3bet with to start.
Would he 3bet with a 6, 7 or 8 high? If so then you're in deep trouble here. If he would only 3bet with a 5 high or better, than theres a good chance hes paired one of his cards and is trying to push you off since you have really bad cards showing. Obviously, if you're calling 6th, you have to call 7th, especially since you've improved.
This hand boils down to what you think he would be 3betting with on 3rd, also taking into consideration, hes seen the other player call 2 bets cold with a K showing, which probably means he has a more liberal raising requirment.
Oh, and seeing his talk on 6th, i'd be more inclined to fold, he seems pretty calm which probably means hes confident hes gonna win this hand.
Posted Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:59 pm GMT by supafrey
As I mentioned on IRC...
I dont usually cap on third, like that. I like to disquise my monsters in Razz slightly more than most guys, but a cap is fine, too.
Played perfectly from then on.
Posted Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:43 pm GMT by crack
I don't factor any chat into the equation. I don't think it's a viable tell.
I can't see him 3 betting here without wheel cards, although it is perfectly correct to do so with the K in. I don't think he is good enough to know that though and I think he would be more worried about me reraising his A up and would more than likely call rather than raise.
I can't raise him anywhere in the hand, all I can do is call down. I can't fold 5th I don't think because the pot is too large, so I called down and won with a 96 versus a pair of deuces. I think I would have called down if any card had hit there, but I am not sure.
Of course I got called a retard chasing fish getting lucky calling with an A23 showing and so on, but the hand goes a lot deeper and I kind of wanted to show anyone interested in razz the complexities of the game.
I spoke to my friend about this hand and showed him and he confirmed I made the correct play in just calling down, however he did point out it would have been correct to fold against a good razz player, because they would have realised they had equity in the pot when a K up calls regardless of their opponents hand.
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