25NL 6-max hands for criticism |
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Posted Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:53 pm GMT by TheSalche
Hand 1: No reads on villain
PokerStars Game #7487939101: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/12/17 - 18:43:21 (ET)
Table 'Sigelinde' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: yak00za ($16.10 in chips)
Seat 2: HotFooter ($31.15 in chips)
Seat 3: pino1234 ($59.50 in chips)
Seat 4: AsydRayne ($33.30 in chips)
Seat 5: Sonny617 ($25.25 in chips)
Seat 6: pechardi ($23.45 in chips)
AsydRayne: posts small blind $0.10
Sonny617: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sonny617  
pechardi: folds
yak00za: folds
HotFooter: calls $0.25
pino1234: calls $0.25
AsydRayne: folds
Sonny617: checks
*** FLOP ***   
Sonny617: checks
HotFooter: checks
pino1234: bets $0.75
Sonny617: calls $0.75
HotFooter: folds
*** TURN *** 
Sonny617: checks
pino1234: checks
*** RIVER *** 
Sonny617: bets $2.50
pino1234: raises $2.50 to $5
Sonny617: ???
Hand 2: 2nd hand at table, hows the flop raise size?
PokerStars Game #7487792289: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/12/17 - 18:33:02 (ET)
Table 'Reseda' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Stickitinguy ($23.25 in chips)
Seat 2: synede ($28.90 in chips)
Seat 3: Sonny617 ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 4: homanga ($34.75 in chips)
Seat 5: minigull ($7.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Jenaie ($11.05 in chips)
Sonny617: posts small blind $0.10
homanga: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sonny617 
minigull: folds
Jenaie: folds
Stickitinguy: raises $0.75 to $1
synede: calls $1
Sonny617: calls $0.90
homanga: folds
*** FLOP ***   
Sonny617: checks
homanga leaves the table
Stickitinguy: bets $2
synede: calls $2
Sonny617: raises $5 to $7
Stickitinguy: calls $5
synede: calls $5
*** TURN *** 
Sonny617: bets $16.75 and is all-in
Hand 3: Villian is aggressive (not LAG, just aggressive), feel like I played this really weakly.
PokerStars Game #7487941786: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/12/17 - 18:43:33 (ET)
Table 'Vega II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: nAArch ($31 in chips)
Seat 2: Split-P ($12.80 in chips)
Seat 3: Sonny617 ($23.60 in chips)
Seat 4: primus889 ($14.40 in chips)
Seat 5: BryanS408 ($15.95 in chips)
Split-P: posts small blind $0.10
Sonny617: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sonny617  
primus889: folds
BryanS408: raises $0.50 to $0.75
nAArch: raises $1.75 to $2.50
Split-P: folds
Sonny617: calls $2.25
BryanS408: folds
*** FLOP *** 
Sonny617: checks
nAArch: checks
*** TURN *** 
Sonny617: bets $4
nAArch: calls $4
*** RIVER *** 
Sonny617: checks
nAArch: bets $9
Sonny617: calls $9
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Posted Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:48 pm GMT by zinn0
Well, I'm not so good but I'll give it a shot anyway...
Hand one, against an unknown I think I just call here. Raising is more than likely only getting called by hands that crush us.
Hand two, I like everything. Flop raise is good. Make it expensive for others to chase and the turn push is also nice.
Hand three, I dunno. I like reraising pre...I assume you checked the flop so you could get him with a c/r? As played I think I c/c the river as well.
Posted Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:58 pm GMT by aaronw
Hand 1- I prefer leading out on the turn. He probably has a hand that will call a bet (like AJ or something like that), but will not make a bet itself. On the river, I think you have to call here.
Hand 2- I really like how you played this.
Hand 3- I am not too sure. Cold calling here PF makes our hand pretty transparent. I like calling here though. Once he checks behind on the flop, you have to bet more on the turn though. He could easily have a hand like AKs or something like that. So I like the check/call on the river.
Posted Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:49 am GMT by Ensano
Hand 1, I think was played, for lack of a better word, perfectly. Odds to call the flush draws, you tried for the c/r (although a c/r there would scream flush and you'd prob lose all action, whereas a bet, depending on your image, would look like a scare card steal) and when that didn't work you led out on the river. Call the min raise and he shows A-X; X= 10-J.
Hand 2, don't know if I would've raised there; but this is 6 max and I usually play a full table. Arguments prob could be made for both betting out or getting in a c/r. I think it all depends on your image and if the villians would fold if you bet out. Although they both DID call your c/r so either they're huge fish or they think you're full of b/s. As for the push on the turn, the pot was what 22$ any decent bet and you were pot comited to any raise maybe even any river card.
Hand 3, if you feel you played it weak then you did. If you were trying to change it up and sandbag someone then you just got unlucky. I don't think I call on the river here; depending on the villian.
Posted Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:19 am GMT by nicthestick
I'm not sure how "advanced" my theory is, but here is my .02
Hand 1
Not bad, you have an easy call. I perhaps semibluff bet the flop, and continue on the turn. Try to make them react to your bets.
Hand 2
Perfect. Synede has one of 2 hands. Flush draw, or AA. Other dude has nothing. $16 into an $18 pot is not much.
Hand 3
A clear fold for me. I feel that dude is on AA, KK or AK. Unless you have notes to the contrary, an easy fold.
Posted Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:31 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Hand 1: What hands can he limp in with here that just became a boat? A3 is the only plausible hand 6-handed I think. Unless he has a history of limping on the button in 6-max with TT, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a boat. All we have to worry about then is the A-high flush... in which case, why does he check the turn? I have seen people check the nuts behind on the turn in order to draw a bet on the river, but since he got you to bet, I don't see the reason for the min-raise. His stack size tells me he's either fairly skilled or quite lucky. The other hand I could see him having is QT for two pair or KJ for the flopped broadway, but this is player-dependent--is he the sort that will limp on the button in 6-max with those sort of hands, and would he raise either of those into a possible flush? It's 50-50 we're ahead right here in my mind. Re-raising has the risk of getting stacked, in which case we lose a lot. Calling loses us some value those times we're ahead, but less value than the bad result of getting stacked. For that reason, I call.
Hand 2: Looks good to me.
Hand 3: I probably bet the flop (standard 1/2 pot cont. bet) with the intention of folding to a raise (bet to elicit information). If he has AK here, he's likely to smooth call instead of raising. He might smooth call with AA or KK in position, but most players will raise. The turn looks fine... it's possible for a stubborn player to call with AK here. River is ugly... hands we were ahead of now beat us. Let's consider what he is likely to have.
The mere fact he 3-bet preflop I think tells us he has JJ-AA or AK (or a total bluff, somewhat less likely in a cash game). The check on the flop makes me suspect AK as opposed to any of the high pairs. The call on the turn (as opposed to a raise) also makes me suspect AK as opposed to any high pair (and the 3-bet bluff is probably now not a serious consideration, as he has had 2 shots to take it away on a raggy board and did nothing). On the river then, of his possible hands, we are losing to AK, and the less likely AA or KK. We are ahead of only JJ (which I consider unlikely because I think he almost always tries to protect his hand on the flop or turn with this), and tied with the highly unlikely QQ.
This is probably a fold on the river, because I can't seriously give credence to any hand he could hold that we beat.
Posted Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:01 pm GMT by jeffonline
1. I like the pre-flop check from an early position, I would lead on the flop, having a inside straight flush draw, when it hit on the turn I would have lead again.
2. Once again I like the limping from an early position with small pairs, I would have lead on the flop and again on the river.
3. We are not in control and leaving it to the poker gods to give us some help, could be up against AKh, if I were on a rush I would call. If I was on the Tilt I would call, It looks so much like a missed flush with pocket high cards but does he have the K, they normally do, as you have called I put him on A10h, I can’t see where we could have played this any different except to fold the river.
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:25 am GMT by TheSalche
Hand 1: I like the idea of betting this flop, unless I get raised pretty harshly I'm in good shape, and at 25NL theres a lot of passive play. It would've given me a better idea of where I was in the hand. I also like that people said they'd call the river for the same reasons that I ended up doing. As Diamond pointed out, theres too much risk in getting stacked by a boat/ace high flush. And of course the raise doesn't really make any sense unless its from one of those hands getting 'value'.
Hand 2: Think I played it right, I suppose I'm just trying to extract max value out of my sets. From what I've seen though, most players are folding the turn to a small bet of $5 - $10, so the bet size doesn't matter much.
Hand 3: Again, I really didn't like the way I played this. However, 4-betting the flop seems like a leak, since I have to fold to an all-in raise and I'll be confused by a call. I was actually not going for a check/raise on this flop, I was trying to get to showdown cheaply. I feel like I needed to bet this flop and go from there ... probably even just accept getting stacked by KK or AA here.
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:44 am GMT by supafrey
1. Horribly played. Some would bet out, I'd prefer a C/R on flop followed by a bet on the turn should the flush draw not come. If it does come, since we're OOP, we need to decide if our villain is the type to bet behind us when we show turn weakness, or whether he'd gladly check behind. If he's a more passive player, i'd bet out the turn flush as well, just slightly smaller to appear timid/blocking.
2. Raise size is pretty good considering how much of your stack it gets in the middle. With the way it played out, your line was obv one of the best for the table. At higher stakes you can't really play like this, but at 25nl they're very likely to call the c/r so it's all pretty standard. The turn bet... well.. I dunno. 12 bucks would still give improper odds to call for any draws and may get us more action against Ax. A push is pretty fine with bad opps.
3. Is QQ really that bad preflop against a raise + reraise at 25nl? Really?! The flop makes your overpair superstrong against the majority of hands (can't hit 2 pair, etc) but has you drawing dead against the KK/AA. I guess it would be really swell if you could find out whether they had that, no?
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:28 am GMT by shorn7
1. I am with supa here to a degree. You have to get $$ into this pot on the flop and turn either via leading (which I prefer) or a C/R. In fact, I don't mind getting it all in on the flop with that draw, so if someone wants to go with me, then great. As played, you have to call the river.
2. Looks fine to me all the way.
3. This one looks OK too, but I would likely lead at the flop to find out where I stand. If he has an overpair, he will likely raise and then I can play accordingly. Basically, you played it so weak that you have no clue where you are on the river. This is a no no in NL since the river is where the bets will be biggest. You want to do your best to find out early if you are in trouble so you don't have to make expensive river calls to find out (as you did here).
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:08 am GMT by supafrey
| shorn7 wrote: | | 1. I am with supa here to a degree. You have to get $$ into this pot on the flop and turn either via leading (which I prefer) or a C/R. |
yeah it shouldn't make much of a diff, but my vote is probably...
c/r > lead >>>>>>>> call > fold
me and you often say the same things in diff words, shorn
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:54 pm GMT by shorn7
| Quote: | | me and you often say the same things in diff words, shorn |
Yes we do. You have better prose than me though. 
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:07 pm GMT by TheSalche
| supafrey wrote: | | 3. Is QQ really that bad preflop against a raise + reraise at 25nl? Really?! The flop makes your overpair superstrong against the majority of hands (can't hit 2 pair, etc) but has you drawing dead against the KK/AA. I guess it would be really swell if you could find out whether they had that, no? |
I agree, that would be swell if we could find out if they had KK/AA. Is 4-betting PF the best way to do that? Betting the flop?
It's not terrible, there are times when it'd be up against AK,AQ,JJ, etc. but also times where it'll be against KK/AA
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:49 pm GMT by supafrey
i dunno. you didn't do either. ^_^
Posted Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:36 pm GMT by TheSalche
| supafrey wrote: | | i dunno. you didn't do either. ^_^ |
lol yeah, cause i played that hand like an uber nit and i hated it ... can you please spoon feed me answers 
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