NL Hand for thoughts please |
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Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:16 am GMT by shorn7
Game is $10/$20, $2000 max. on BD. I have been at the table for three laps and villain has been very aggressive, playing and raising a lot of pots. I haven't seen him show down many hands except for 1 when he held AA against QQ. He has built a stack of $6500 and I have around $1900 as the hand begins.
Villain raises to $60 in MP after 1 limper. I call OTB with 7s7d. Blinds fold, limper calls so we go to the flop three way with $210 in the pot.
Flop comes Qd 4h 7h. Limper checks and Villain checks to me. This was pretty odd as he had been firing at every pot he raised before now, so I am not sure what it means. But, I decided that I would take a chance here and allow a free card to the flush draw in hopes of winning a bigger pot if villain held AK or an overpair and was trapping. Anyone think this is a bad idea and bet here?
Turn is the Jd for a board of Qd 4h 7h Jd. Both limper and Villain check again. Again, I am finding his play strange. But, with two draws out there I have to bet something, so I fire a pot-sized bet of $210. Limper folds and Villain quickly check-raises me to $400, a bit more than minimum. This smells like a semi-bluff to me here (like AJh or something like that), but I still can't put villain on a specific hand and all of a sudden I didn't feel like I wanted to play for my stack right now (mistake I think), so I decided to just call again (please rip me here if you think this was awful).
River is the Ks for final board of Qd 4h 7h Jd Ks. Villain thinks for a bit and then bets $400 into the $1010 pot. I have $1340 left and the pot is $1410. What do you do here? Scroll down for my results.
I played wimpy and just called. Villain turned over AKo for top/top on the river. I really feel like I lost value on this hand, especially on the river as I think I probably could have raised the min. and gotten him to pay off. But for some reason, since he played the hand strangely from what I had seen, I read him for QQ or JJ on the end instead of AA or a pair + draw. I just didint want to call a push from him if I raised at that point, and so I wussed out. After a lot of thinking, I think I played this hand quite poorly but wanted to get your thoughts on it.
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Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:30 am GMT by Dave B
I DONT PLAY MUCH NL CASH GAMES.....
That said, I think that his check means that he might like his hand, but doesnt feel like he take it away. With 2 players and a flush draw, I probably bet this flop, especially with the aggressive player in the hand.
One thought, was the AK off w/ one heart? He might have been waiting until the turn to bet and see if he could pick up a nut flush draw before firing at the pot.
His play is odd, given your comments on his play. That is why I immediately think drawing hand or QQ. KQ AQ KK AA he would be firing.
With a set, I dont mind your flop check even w/ a flush draw out there. If a the boat and flush come, you are doubling.
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:43 am GMT by shorn7
| Quote: | | One thought, was the AK off w/ one heart? |
Nope, no hearts. AsKd.
I am starting to think actually that I lost most of the value on the flop because he might have called a bet there anyway (or cr'd) as an aggressive steal play. But, I guess he didn't have anything until the river so I might have lost him if I had done that. Regardless of the outcome, I am still not happy with how I played it as I let the other player dictate to me how to play a powerful hand. Not good.
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:00 am GMT by Dave B
Be careful not to beat yourself up about how you played against what he actually had. Play based on the players in the hand, your hand, and the board.
You will never be happy if you play against what the most potential profit was vs the actual result instead of what you thought he had at the time.
Play well and make good decisions based on current info. Dont beat yourself up for folding 76 vs AA when the flop comes 776. That will just drive you crazy.
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:20 pm GMT by Jauron
I'm still of the mindset that you are just supposed to go broke with a set to a bigger set unless you are certain they have a bigger one. Perhaps it's a mistake on my part?
If he had moved in on the river would you have folded? On the turn?
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:41 pm GMT by shorn7
Jauron-
I am with you. I don't know why I played this hand so passively and I was hoing you guys would take me to task here. After all, I was one of the folks who said in a rasied pot, you should rarely if ever fold. So, yes I probably do call a push on the river here.
I guess somethimes I brain fart at the table and it costs me $$.
Shorn
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:53 pm GMT by Skribbles
You had villian setup great.
With position you check the flop. Once its checked to you again on the turn, your pot sized bet looks like a steal. His c/r on turn looked like he was calling bullshit on you and that he didn't have that great of a hand.
River... you gotta go broke here. Only a higher set beats you, or AT. If villian was that aggro would he not be re-raising pre-flop w/ JJ-KK?
I really liked the way you played it up until the river.
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:15 pm GMT by shorn7
Skribbles-
Yes. Perfect look at it. And how I would normally play it. I just wimped out on the end making the read that he was really strong. 99 times out of 100 I raise here and go broke if he pushes with a better hand...and that is what I should have done here too.
Oh well. I hate it when I misplay hands this badly. 
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:00 pm GMT by AHBrownell
I never play this high of stakes, but I will offer my two cents.
If your opponent is aggressive, why wouldn't you bet it on the flop? I would be about 1/3-1/2 the pot on the flop in hopes that either my opponent will think I'm stealing and raise/bluff or my opponent will call thinking I'm giving them good odds. Checking seems like a bad play to me because say your opponent has a big pair (AA, KK) and was looking to check-raise it, you've saved him money by not betting. In addition, if a flush card hits, its unlikely you will win much in the rest of the hand, regardless of what your opponents have; and this ignores the times they actually have a flush and you lose a big pot.
On the turn, I like the big bet. BUT I think I would probably re-reraise him at this point. There's 800 in there. I'd probably just bet about 900-1100. This effectively puts you allin without doing it. I like this play because he might call with hands you beat. You also commit him and yourself to the hand. SO you can know it is correct to get allin on the river no matter what...
Posted Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:16 am GMT by TheSalche
Like Harrington said in one of his books, you're an idiot if you don't go broke in set over set situations. At least you didn't fold 
Now you know better
Posted Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:01 pm GMT by supafrey
| TheSalche wrote: | Like Harrington said in one of his books, you're an idiot if you don't go broke in set over set situations. At least you didn't fold
Now you know better |
This doesn't apply at NL2k, or on a 3-broadway board.
Posted Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:51 pm GMT by shorn7
quoteThis doesn't apply at NL2k, or on a 3-broadway board.
| Quote: |
While this is true, I still played this hand like crap. |
Posted Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:43 pm GMT by TheSalche
| supafrey wrote: | | TheSalche wrote: | Like Harrington said in one of his books, you're an idiot if you don't go broke in set over set situations. At least you didn't fold
Now you know better |
This doesn't apply at NL2k, or on a 3-broadway board. |
i suppose not as much on the river, but the OP's thoughts on turn play was that he was beat, he didnt want to play for his stack when there were only two hands that beat him, and a much larger range of hands he was beating ... plus from what shorn has said about bodog, the 10/20 seems pretty fishy
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