Need some FT NL25 strategy ideas |
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Posted Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:25 pm GMT by khaosanroad
I joined FT and right away lost several buy-ins. I dropped down to 10NL and made it back with no problem. I'm back at 25NL and I've dropped 2 buy-ins after the last 3 days, I just seem to be stuck in a rut.
I'm seeing about 19% Flops, and raising with big hands.
It doesn't help that my PP's are not hitting sets lately.
If I raise preflop and miss, my cont. bets are getting called most of the time even with a high card on the flop.
If I raise and hit the flop, I'm getting called down by second pair and they are hitting trips or 2 pair.
I generally bet 1/2 to 3/4 of the pot on the flop.
basically I'm running into a lot of calling stations, which should be great, but I'm not winning.
I would like to read some ideas.
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Posted Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:33 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
Probably the most obvious is don't bluff the calling stations. If you make a continuation bet every time you miss, and you get called every time, then stop doing it.
Pressing the mouse button more forcefully as you do it doesn't actually improve your fold equity. I can vouch for that.
For the rest of it, perhaps you need to loosen up a bit and play a few more hands in LP, assuming you're getting anything playable. Take a look at the hands you were playing at 10NL and see if you notice a difference in your hand selection.
If everything else looks OK, then just wait it out. You can't do anything else.
Posted Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:08 pm GMT by khaosanroad
Cutting down on the cont. bets is one thing I'm going to do.
what about betting the whole pot instead of 1/2 potting when I do hit?
It's basically been 3 steps back for every 2 steps forward so it's been a slow steady bleed.
Posted Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:23 pm GMT by supafrey
why are you cutting down on your c-bets, specifically?
Posted Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:36 pm GMT by TheSalche
if you have PT, try datamining, that might help you figure out who the calling stations/fish are and go after those guys ... it'll at least help you figure out the solid players
Posted Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:18 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I don't think cutting down on C-bets is the correct strategy per se, but mixing up your C-bets can help a lot. Say, x% of the time you will check the flop whether you hit something or not. Frequently, this play can win you more money when you flop top pair, especially if you have AK and hit an Ace.
By mixing this up, it will prevent opponents from exploiting your continuation bets. There are a growing number of players from the $25 level on up that will make certain plays to exploit TAG-play. Specifically, out of position, they will check-raise your C-bets a large % of the time and force you to fold, and you will lose the amount of your C-bet. In position, they will often call any reasonable C-bet on the flop just to see what you do on the turn. If you don't fire a second barrel, they will bet and try to take it away. This is the best move a calling station has, and probably the only thing that keeps him from going broke every night.
Just the slightest randomization of your play will completely defeat this strategy. They will fail to make successful check-raises often enough that will play more straightforward against you, and by checking behind on the flop with a hand like TPTK (I only recommend doing this heads-up), you will often win more money from marginal hands that might have otherwise folded.
And if you're running into calling stations, just don't plan on running many bluffs! Watch your players, and know who will fold to continuation bets and who won't. Get a feeling for how much value you can extract out of given hands, and I agree with Sean, who suggested playing more hands in position. I guarantee that you win more money with any given hand in position than out of position.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:08 am GMT by MrDarling
I don't see any real reason the level of play will change that much between $10 and $25. Are you sure your playing doesn't change?
Maybe you're playing scared poker on this levels, are the relevant size of your bet over all smaller?
God know $10nl is full with calling station and aggressive maniacs.
BTW, 19% preflop? wow, do you play the same on $10?
Maybe I should tighten a bit. I can't seem to progress much in $10 yet.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:11 pm GMT by khaosanroad
| MrDarling wrote: | I don't see any real reason the level of play will change that much between $10 and $25. Are you sure your playing doesn't change?
Maybe you're playing scared poker on this levels, are the relevant size of your bet over all smaller?
God know $10nl is full with calling station and aggressive maniacs.
BTW, 19% preflop? wow, do you play the same on $10?
Maybe I should tighten a bit. I can't seem to progress much in $10 yet. |
Yeah I'll see between 17-21% at 10NL and I seem to get more folds at that level. Maybe I had the image of being a good player there and players didn't challenge me much.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:35 pm GMT by supafrey
I assure you it has absolutely nothing to do with your image from day to day.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:16 pm GMT by Eusebio
I have the same problem as you, just lost 80% of my BR. Reasons are the same as yours... never hit a hand, beeing unlucky in many situations, etc.
It got even worse when I realized that i was scared to play postflop, because there could be a chance that i could be drawn out...
Actually I had the same statistics: 20% of the hands played...
I tried to change my game... loosen up a bit, and it worked!
Especially in the first 20-30 hands i am playing very loose, then i start tightening up...
I also try to raise every time i want to play a hand ( and if i am the first in the pot)... that makes most of the marginal hands fold and if you put in a almost potsized c/bet, it works better then the standart halfpot-bet.
Its like in the smallbuyin sīnīg if you raise 3 times BB to 120 you get 5 callers... if you raise to 200 they think twice, I guess at those microlevels the betsize is more a psychological thing than depending on odds: if the bet looks cheap, he will pay and draw out on you...(and at least I will play worse with every badbeat i take  )
thats what i experienced during the last sessions, but thats a very short-run-experience (600-700 hands)
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:32 pm GMT by supafrey
how did you lose 80% of your roll in 600 hands? Roll size and stakes, please.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:45 pm GMT by Eusebio
actually its not a "bankroll" like a pokerplayer like you would think about a bankroll
Its more of a pocketmoney that one is willing to lose, while learning the game... trying to build a real BR 
I was trying to say that i constantly lost with the supertightstrategy... down to 20% of the original BR, then with the new "style" i could manage to win, and i am winning constantly, but i am just some hands, the 600, with the new style, so i dont know if the winning is just pure luck
thatswhat i tried to say
Posted Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:42 am GMT by khaosanroad
I at least came out ahead a little bit today(wed.)
I played my medium PP's more aggressively pre and post flop from middle and late position. It seemed to help cut down on the calling station problem.
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