Interesting hand, comments appreciated |
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Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:52 am GMT by xGinNJuicex
Sorry for posting this twice but I think I posted this in the wrong forum hence the lack of responses...
Hey everyone. I don't post much on here but I think I will be posting more in the future. I have been playing poker seriously for about a year. I went to Vegas for the first time in June, and didn't do terribly well playing mostly tournaments. I went again last Tuesday through Thursday, this time playing mostly cash games and doing very well. I came home up on the entire trip (including cabs, food, etc.) over $500, making over $1000 on Wednesday including a win of the 2am Treasure Island tourney for $400. I thought I'd share one of my most interesting hands of the week, and a call I don't know if I should have made despite the fact I won the hand...
1/2 NL Cash game at Mandalay Bay
I have about $250 sitting in front of me, and I'm in the cutoff with 8 9
The player in 4th position calls the BB, as do I along with the SB. The BB checks his option. The SB is a fairly weak player, but both others are strong and fairly aggressive.
The flop comes 8  7  3 
All 3 players check to me, and I fire out a pot sized bet. The SB calls, as does the player in 4th position. Pot is around $40.
The turn is 8
The SB bets $20, 4th position calls, I raise to $60.
SB calls, 4th position folds. Pot is now $180.
The river is 5
The SB checks. I bet out $50, hoping to get called. The SB moves all-in for what was the rest of my stack. I think for a long while. I'm worried about a few hands... my biggest worry was that he hit his set on the flop and filled up on the turn. He also in a 1/2 NL game could easily have called with 96 or 46 out of the small blind but I don't think he would have chased a gutshot. I also comtemplated a better 8 but figured that to be the least likely. I figured that his being a weak player ruled out his playing a set/boat so slowly, and was willing to take my chances that he had 46 or 96. Also if he had diamonds he just got extremely lucky on the river.
The problem I have looking back now was that I couldn't figure out what he could have to make that move that I could beat other than a stone cold bluff. This worried me, but I made the call simply because I pegged him as a weak player. I probably lay this down to someone I know knows what they are doing.
I call, and flip over my 3 8s. He shows Q9 off suit and gets up and walks away from the table.
I know I won the pot, but given what could beat me was this a good call? I read an interesting article in cardplayer on the way home explaining that just because you won the hand doesn't mean you made the right call, and I'm wondering if I should have laid this hand down given the possibilities. What do you guys think? Thanks!
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Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:39 am GMT by TheSalche
I don't like your river bet here. Usually you'll be raised by the better hands (boats, better trips, straights, flushes aren't calling). And mediocre hands will fold here.
However, in theory you don't have to worry about the flush here (only flush hands that make sense are A3, 69 and 910). The straight draw is worrysome though and better trips/full house are likely.
Your call is certainly debatable, but nothing to lose sleep over.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:44 am GMT by supafrey
Yeah there's really no reason to reopen the river betting for this kind of a hand, especially if you only think you can get 50 bucks out of it. Save the value bet for easier decisions.
Posted Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:58 am GMT by xGinNJuicex
I bet the river because his check made me feel he was weak, but I hadn't even thought about that. I always tend to bet when I feel like I have the best hand, and I felt like I had the best hand until he raised me. I suppose you are right that if he's that weak he's going to fold to that bet anyway. Thanks for the advice.
Posted Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:56 pm GMT by TheSalche
When you bet/raise think about what you're trying to accomplish and what the possible outcomes are.
Here you wanted to get more value out of a semi-big, but far from the nuts, hand.
Outcomes:
1) He folds and you don't have to show your cards
2) He calls and shows a weaker hand, +$
3) He calls and shows a stronger hand (probably 8T+), -$
4) He check/raises you with a better hand, -$
5) He check/raises you with a worse hand, +$ (???)
The problem is that he's much more likely to check/raise with a better hand, and if he does check raise you with a worse hand, you still have a hard decision to make.
Use position wisely ... checking behind is a good idea on boards like this.
Posted Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:42 pm GMT by Phil14312
To be honest I didn't read the hand over very carefully, but what it sounds like is you should evaluate what hands you can beat that will call you. There isn't a lot that can call you here that you can also beat.
Posted Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:46 am GMT by xGinNJuicex
| Phil14312 wrote: | | To be honest I didn't read the hand over very carefully, but what it sounds like is you should evaluate what hands you can beat that will call you. There isn't a lot that can call you here that you can also beat. |
That's what I was getting at by posting this hand. I was happy to win the pot but I started thinking about it after the fact and this is the reason it bothered me that I made the call. I do have use my position better in this spot.
I appreciate the advice on this topic. If ya have more keep it comin...
Posted Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:01 pm GMT by SetofDogBalls
If you had him pegged for a weaker player, I would have tossed. He showed strenght from the start, called raises. To much out there that could have beaten ya.
but thats poker.
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