im through with cash games online |
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Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:49 pm GMT by ninetensuited
one reason and one reason only, i suck at them, ive made 2 final tables in the last 2 days and have nothing to show for them because i donked off my winnings at cash tables. I suck
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Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:30 pm GMT by exit music
Cash games aren't like tournaments. Pushing preflop with TT is a bad play, calling a check-raise for all your chips with TPTK isn't usually a good play.
For average luck, you can make a million times more at a cash table than you should be able to in a tournament.
Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:47 pm GMT by ninetensuited
well, i understand that, i just dont get it, i dont get how to play cash games, will someone help me out?
Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:14 pm GMT by exit music
For full ring low stakes cash games:
Limp with 22-99 from late position
Raise with TT-AA, AK AQ and KQs from late position
Limp with 5-6 suited and better from late position
Fold everything else.
If you limp and get raised when you have 22-77, fold unless you have position on everybody. If you are raised with a suited connector fold except J-10 on the button.
After the flop:
If you have a set/straight/flush - bet.
If you have a flush draw/str8 draw, bet/call if you are getting good odds.
If you have Top pair or an overpair, be careful and DO NOT assume you have the best hand. If there is a draw-light board and someone bets and re-raises, you are often up against a set.
Fold everything else. Mine for Sets. Find a table full of dumb people.
If you listen to that advice you could probably win in low stakes games with ABC players and bad players.
Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:26 pm GMT by mortaleclipse
Nineten I can sorta relate on that. Was reading in Bluff magazine today about a guy who wrote about diffrences in players with tournies and cash games. According to this guy most pros dont even excel at both.
Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:53 pm GMT by supafrey
oh wows. now i can beat online pokers. thanks for the hand chart!
Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:55 pm GMT by exit music
| supafrey wrote: | | oh wows. now i can beat online pokers. thanks for the hand chart! |
You'll never beat online poker, you have this bad habit of bluffing 3 times with 7-high against opponents who will fold with 75% of their stack comitted. Actually wait, maybe there is more to poker.... hm
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:23 am GMT by ninetensuited
thanks for the help, ill try it out sometime when i venture into a cash game again, its mtts and 90 person sngs for a while for me
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:45 am GMT by MrDarling
At low levels people play much much looser then even the worse freerolls. So in theory, it should be much easier to make money. However, often enough your TPTK will run into 2 rags pairs like J2 or even 74.
You can almost never push people out of a pot - even if the board 4 to the flush and 4 to the str, loads of players will call with 3rd or 4th button with a weak kicker.
And don't forget the killer rake...
I want to give you an advise, I really do - however I'm still a losing poker player. Though so far this was my best month of poker playing in which I almost broke even.
You need to play a very Tight Aggressive game, be willing to fold hugh hands etc...
If it works, let me know. I might try it my self 
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:06 am GMT by tame_deuces
I don't know how much I know about poker, maybe nothing. But the secret to playing winning poker is certainly not to open-limp with the intention of folding when raised.
And the whole TAG,LAG,LAP,SLAP,LPA thing is overrated. As are the 'rules'. Don't play this, don't minbet, don't minraise, don't bluff, don't slowplay, don't overbet, don't call much, its only a pair, never fold this and all the other axioms are stupid. Most stuff has its place at one time or another.
Not that I don't believe low to medium NL can't be beaten by playing like a robot and multitabling, I know it can and it's probably even the most profitable way to do it in terms of $$$.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:28 am GMT by MrDarling
| tame_deuces wrote: | | Not that I don't believe low to medium NL can't be beaten by playing like a robot and multitabling, I know it can and it's probably even the most profitable way to do it in terms of $$$. |
Very interesting post. As someone who want to get good at poker more then I want to break the low levels tables (though I want that as well) what do you suggest beside play more?
I know for my self, my weakest point at the moment is odds. I don't automatically calculate my pot odds to make the right call , I butcher implied odd (ie I call a raise with 46s , hit my miracle str and push everyone out of the pot)
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:12 am GMT by khaosanroad
You don't fold PP's. THey are too profitable at low levels when you hit your set.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:48 pm GMT by exit music
| khaosanroad wrote: | | You don't fold PP's. THey are too profitable at low levels when you hit your set. |
I disagree with this, I wont take 22-66 into a 5xBB or more PF raise against 1 or 2 people, you just wont hit a set often enough to make it profitable, and you aren't guaranteed to get paid when you hit a set.
You can't play every straight/flush draw and you can't play every pocket pair, you'll be leaking money if you do. Although I also think that PP and sets are the best way to win big pots....
As per usual with poker, you just have to balance these contradictory concepts.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:53 pm GMT by supafrey
err isnt stack size the only consideration
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:55 pm GMT by aaronw
| supafrey wrote: | | err isnt stack size the only consideration |
Thats what I was thinking. You can't just say "I'm not going to call with this flush draw this time because I don't feel it". You should be looking at stack sizes, pot odds, implied odds, what hand they could have, etc.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:03 pm GMT by TheSalche
| supafrey wrote: | | err isnt stack size the only consideration |
yup
Solution here is simple, don't play cash games if you're playing MTTs, play SnGs to keep the boredom away.
Or just keep your limits down to say 10 and 25NL. And play 6-max tables ... mmm juicy
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:06 pm GMT by Moon_Child
yeah cash game is really different, AK just isn't as strong as it is in a tourney... u would be willing to push it all in almost anytime
but in a cash game, sometimes u gotta lay it.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:41 pm GMT by kingetje
play those pocket pairs mang...
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:38 pm GMT by ninetensuited
i just won 50$ in a mtt, i might play some NL10 tonight
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:55 am GMT by exit music
| aaronw wrote: | | supafrey wrote: | | err isnt stack size the only consideration |
Thats what I was thinking. You can't just say "I'm not going to call with this flush draw this time because I don't feel it". You should be looking at stack sizes, pot odds, implied odds, what hand they could have, etc. |
Er really? I don't think of any of that shit, I just flip a 3 sided coin if I have a flush draw and a 4 sided coin if I have an open ended straight draw and if I can guess the flip I'll go with it.... that's not how you guys play poker?
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:32 am GMT by Muck
| ninetensuited wrote: | | im through with cash games online |
So just play tourneys, problem solved.
My work here is done.
Seriously though if you get a better ROI from tourneys just stick to them, ring games aren’t mandatory. I used to play SnGs to build my BR but now I just play cash games with the occasional MMT on the weekend to mix things up.
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:30 pm GMT by General Sal
| exit music wrote: | | khaosanroad wrote: | | You don't fold PP's. THey are too profitable at low levels when you hit your set. |
I disagree with this, I wont take 22-66 into a 5xBB or more PF raise against 1 or 2 people, you just wont hit a set often enough to make it profitable, and you aren't guaranteed to get paid when you hit a set.
You can't play every straight/flush draw and you can't play every pocket pair, you'll be leaking money if you do. Although I also think that PP and sets are the best way to win big pots....
As per usual with poker, you just have to balance these contradictory concepts. |
um... i think you might be playing the small pairs wrong. If you call a 5xBB raise (let's say for arguments sake you're playing $1 Big blinds), then you're calling $5. Well, you should hit your set about once every 9 times.. or be 8:1 against. Well, if you can play against the guy who'll give you $40+ each time you hit the set, then, you're good.
Let's say he bets half the pot everytime too, 'cause he's aggressive. You should have $15 in the pot on the flop. He's put in about $15 so far... you just need another $30 bucks. Think implied odds! Supafrey is kind of right... cocky though he may be.
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:49 pm GMT by zeroswarm
| tame_deuces wrote: | I don't know how much I know about poker, maybe nothing. But the secret to playing winning poker is certainly not to open-limp with the intention of folding when raised.
And the whole TAG,LAG,LAP,SLAP,LPA thing is overrated. As are the 'rules'. Don't play this, don't minbet, don't minraise, don't bluff, don't slowplay, don't overbet, don't call much, its only a pair, never fold this and all the other axioms are stupid. Most stuff has its place at one time or another.
Not that I don't believe low to medium NL can't be beaten by playing like a robot and multitabling, I know it can and it's probably even the most profitable way to do it in terms of $$$. |
I would say you know quite a bit about poker after reading this post.
It seems to me people like to lay down rules on exactly how to play at various limits simply because it makes them feel better to know they are playing the correct way if they follow them.
It also provides a neat and tidy excuse for when they lose. " Oh well, I played correctly and lost. What can you do?".......I've often used that one myself... 
Of course, you can play a hand correctly and lose, that happens all the time. But I don't think having "set" rules for playing in a low limit game is necessarily a good thing.
I think the best policy is to go in to each game looking to adapt to whatever styles of play happen to be on show.
The ability to change your style of play when the time is right is perhaps one of the most important "skills" to learn in poker, in my opinion anyway.
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:29 am GMT by exit music
| General Sal wrote: | | exit music wrote: | | khaosanroad wrote: | | You don't fold PP's. THey are too profitable at low levels when you hit your set. |
I disagree with this, I wont take 22-66 into a 5xBB or more PF raise against 1 or 2 people, you just wont hit a set often enough to make it profitable, and you aren't guaranteed to get paid when you hit a set.
You can't play every straight/flush draw and you can't play every pocket pair, you'll be leaking money if you do. Although I also think that PP and sets are the best way to win big pots....
As per usual with poker, you just have to balance these contradictory concepts. |
um... i think you might be playing the small pairs wrong. If you call a 5xBB raise (let's say for arguments sake you're playing $1 Big blinds), then you're calling $5. Well, you should hit your set about once every 9 times.. or be 8:1 against. Well, if you can play against the guy who'll give you $40+ each time you hit the set, then, you're good.
Let's say he bets half the pot everytime too, 'cause he's aggressive. You should have $15 in the pot on the flop. He's put in about $15 so far... you just need another $30 bucks. Think implied odds! Supafrey is kind of right... cocky though he may be. |
I understand implied odds, I just wanted to stress the point that you don't always double up when you flop a set. You're right that against maniacs they will continue betting into you with KQ on a 9-7-3 flop because they can't think of a likely hand that you might hold that wont fold to an all-in on the river.
You get paid with a set when the flop comes A 5 3 and your opponent holds AK, which happens less than 8:1, which is the real reason I wont waste my time crossing my fingers b/c of implied odds when I have 33 in early position, especially in a full-ring game.
I completely agree with most of the people who disagree with me.
And for the record, for those of you who hadn't noticed, my first post was very tongue-in-check. So much for oversimplication as means of sarcasm.
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:05 am GMT by ninetensuited
i decided to sit down at a 1/2 FL table i sat down w/ 40$ right now i have a little over 100 in front of me, im playing suited connectors and top 10 hands and it seems to be working
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:38 am GMT by tame_deuces
| ninetensuited wrote: | | i decided to sit down at a 1/2 FL table i sat down w/ 40$ right now i have a little over 100 in front of me, im playing suited connectors and top 10 hands and it seems to be working |
That's FL for you. FL isn't like NL. NL is like a shark attack in the movies. WHAM! BIG WHITE! THERE GOES YOUR LEGS, ARMS AND HEAD AND BLOOD IS EVERYWHERE!
FL is like the real deal. The sun is shining, everything is well and life is complete bliss. Then this thing you never saw bites your friggin foot off before your panic chases it away and the last 4 days of your life is spent floating on cardboard somewhere in pacific drinking seawater, having feverish fantasies about embarassing stuff you'd rather forget and being filled with excrutiang pains.
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:48 am GMT by ninetensuited
| tame_deuces wrote: | | ninetensuited wrote: | | i decided to sit down at a 1/2 FL table i sat down w/ 40$ right now i have a little over 100 in front of me, im playing suited connectors and top 10 hands and it seems to be working |
That's FL for you. FL isn't like NL. NL is like a shark attack in the movies. WHAM! BIG WHITE! THERE GOES YOUR LEGS, ARMS AND HEAD AND BLOOD IS EVERYWHERE!
FL is like the real deal. The sun is shining, everything is well and life is complete bliss. Then this thing you never saw bites your friggin foot off before your panic chases it away and the last 4 days of your life is spent floating on cardboard somewhere in pacific drinking seawater, having feverish fantasies about embarassing stuff you'd rather forget and being filled with excrutiang pains. |
can you type that in english please?
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:31 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| ninetensuited wrote: | | can you type that in english please? |
It kills you slowly and without the common courtesy to give you a reach-around.
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:37 pm GMT by kingetje
Hahahaaaa at above 3 posts
| Quote: | | I just wanted to stress the point that you don't always double up when you flop a set. You're right that against maniacs they will continue betting i |
what if the one flopping a set is a maniac? dont think he'll get paid off?
true if youre a nit who folds until he has AA or KK you wont get paid with your sets.. if youre in there lots of hands stingin around betting here betting there you bet your ass you gotta play those pocket pairs
Posted Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:42 pm GMT by groton
I am Done with Playing Poker In General Online execpt for freeroles.
iv just lost my whole bank roll do to playing cash games for the most part but i was never able to get up enough in sit n goes and turnys.
to offset the losses
so i'll just stick to Playing at B&M's and Homegames from now on well for atleast a mounth or two i realy should work on getting rid of my credit card debts
Posted Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:51 am GMT by pm_french
| groton wrote: | I am Done with Playing Poker In General Online execpt for freeroles.
iv just lost my whole bank roll do to playing cash games for the most part but i was never able to get up enough in sit n goes and turnys.
to offset the losses
so i'll just stick to Playing at B&M's and Homegames from now on well for atleast a mounth or two i realy should work on getting rid of my credit card debts |
WOW!!!! It's nice to see someone is feeling EXACTLY the same as me at the moment. I'm giving online poker a total rest for a few weeks. I'm playing like a complete and utter TW@ at the moment and for the first in years feel like I'm throwing good cash down the drain chasing lost money. For the first time ever I feel like I need to take a small break.
Posted Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:42 am GMT by vyni
| pm_french wrote: | | ... chasing lost money ... |
That's a big no no.
If losses from previous sessions are on your mind in any way when you're playing.... you need to take a nice break. If it's bothering, clearly you were playing with money that you shouldnt have been playing with to begin with.
I'm not saying that in any discriminatory manner. It's simply that if you're chasing losses, you're going to start drooling over pots and making stupid plays, hoping a gamble will payoff. Far too often people fall into this and dig themselves in way over their heads. This is where gambling becomes a problem.
Posted Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:45 pm GMT by ninetensuited
and gambling problems are nooooo good
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