Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:11 pm GMT by PLOCH
I thought this was perfect play until....
Was the other wrong or lucky?
Full Tilt Poker Game #1602034511: Table WPTfan.com - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:32:47 ET - 2007/01/14
Seat 1: viking999 ($154.45)
Seat 2: ANTHONYKHLAM ($133)
Seat 3: Alyne ($60), is sitting out
Seat 4: BMark ($46.90)
Seat 5: Plochman ($51.95)
Seat 6: TheScrewdriver ($16.90)
Seat 7: Lil_Mac 11 ($95.70)
Seat 8: dbvegas ($100)
Seat 9: bad0-10 ($127.60)
TheScrewdriver posts the small blind of $0.50
Lil_Mac 11 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Plochman  
dbvegas folds
bad0-10 folds
viking999 raises to $3
ANTHONYKHLAM folds
BMark folds
Plochman calls $3
TheScrewdriver folds
Lil_Mac 11 folds
*** FLOP ***   
viking999 bets $5
Plochman calls $5
*** TURN *** 
viking999 checks
Plochman bets $6
viking999 raises to $45
Plochman calls $37.95, and is all in
viking999 shows  
Plochman shows
Uncalled bet of $1.05 returned to viking999
*** RIVER *** 
viking999 shows a full house, Tens full of Queens
Plochman shows a straight, Ace high
viking999 wins the pot ($102.40) with a full house, Tens full of Queens
Plochman is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $105.40 | Rake $3
Board:
Seat 1: viking999 showed and won ($102.40) with a full house, Tens full of Queens
Seat 2: ANTHONYKHLAM didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Alyne is sitting out
Seat 4: BMark didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Plochman (button) showed and lost with a straight, Ace high
Seat 6: TheScrewdriver (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Lil_Mac 11 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: dbvegas didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: bad0-10 didn't bet (folded)
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Posted Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:45 pm GMT by aaronw
Fold flop. You don't have odds to chase your gutshot.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:03 am GMT by TheSalche
im seeing a pattern
call call call call
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:18 pm GMT by vyni
| aaronw wrote: | | Fold flop. You don't have odds to chase your gutshot. |
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:39 pm GMT by PLOCH
I all ready had the straight when he put me me all in before the river. He sucked out on the river getting the Queen for the boat.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:41 pm GMT by aaronw
| PLOCH wrote: | | I all ready had the straight when he put me me all in before the river. He sucked out on the river getting the Queen for the boat. |
You sucked out on the turn when he already had a set. What's you point? This is the stuff that happens when you chase gutshot straight draws without odds.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:29 pm GMT by PLOCH
I'm confused. I have a straight to his trips after the turn. He put me all in and should've lost. The way some of you guys talk unless you make something on the flop one must fold. I thought the idea was to mix it up.
| aaronw wrote: | | PLOCH wrote: | | I all ready had the straight when he put me me all in before the river. He sucked out on the river getting the Queen for the boat. |
You sucked out on the turn when he already had a set. What's you point? This is the stuff that happens when you chase gutshot straight draws without odds. |
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:27 pm GMT by Skribbles
You got lucky to hit a 4 outer on the turn.
He hit one of his many outs on the river.
Visit the bad beat forum if you want to cry about losing.
Posted Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:49 pm GMT by zinn0
How come every time someone makes a bad play they attribute it "mixing it up"?
I would also love to see some of the opinions you might have gotten had you not posted the results.
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:03 am GMT by Muck
Mate the point these guys are just trying to make is that there’s more to poker than:
“Being ahead when the biggest bet/call is made.”
If you run this hand though a simulator you’ll find that:
- Sometimes you’ll hit a straight and win
But much more often:
- You’ll miss your straight and end up bleeding chips chasing with poor odds.
- You’ll hit your straight but still lose, e.g. to a full house.
- You’ll hit an ace and end up losing to AK, AT or QJ.
Because you chased with bad odds you’ll lose money in the long run. You can say “What about my implied odds? I got all his chips in on the Turn.” Which is true but most of the time he’d fold if his hand was weak-average, he called because his hand was strong and he still had outs.
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:33 pm GMT by PLOCH
Here's a question and I truly appreciate the criticsm. Even though at that point of having the straight, even though I shouldn't have been in to begin with, do you suggest folding and did the other guy make the right play by forcing me all in after the turn?
You guys have opened my eyes to my play.
| Muck wrote: | Mate the point these guys are just trying to make is that there’s more to poker than:
“Being ahead when the biggest bet/call is made.”
If you run this hand though a simulator you’ll find that:
- Sometimes you’ll hit a straight and win
But much more often:
- You’ll miss your straight and end up bleeding chips chasing with poor odds.
- You’ll hit your straight but still lose, e.g. to a full house.
- You’ll hit an ace and end up losing to AK, AT or QJ.
Because you chased with bad odds you’ll lose money in the long run. You can say “What about my implied odds? I got all his chips in on the Turn.” Which is true but most of the time he’d fold if his hand was weak-average, he called because his hand was strong and he still had outs. |
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:42 pm GMT by aaronw
As bad as the flop play is, once you get to the turn, you have to get it all in. Bad luck that the board paired, but this all could have been avoided by folding the flop.
Posted Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:42 pm GMT by Skribbles
You definitly don't fold once you hit your straight. Even if you knew he had a set it would be correct to get all the money in.
The only bad play in this hand was your draw to a gutshot. And even that could be a decent play if you and villian are extremely deep. But you had 50BBs and called off 10% of that to draw at a gutshot.
Other than that the hand played out as it should. There are plenty of hands that call his re-raise that he has beat.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:24 pm GMT by ziggy21
I am a very new card player so I'm just making sure I understand all of this.
The chance of him hitting his Q on the turn is about 16%, but the pot odds are about 28%, right? So since his chance of hitting his card is lower than the pot odds, that is why it wasn't a good play???
Thanks
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:51 pm GMT by Ryan231
The flop call was just burning your money, after you've played a lot of hands you'll slowly see why calling a gutshot on the flop is a bad idea. Calling your play "mixing it up" is pretty funny, you went fishing is what it's called. Everyone does it sometimes I guess but try to hold yourself back, you know its a bad call and fold.
I think the villian kind of played it poorly too, he bet the flop fine but check raising the turn is a real mistake. His raise was pretty massive too, try to avoid doing that yourself, a set is a powerful hand but its not worth losing your entire stack when there are a lot of bigger hands out there.
If you want to mix it up try raising in headup pots on flops where you flop a good draw. If you are in position these type of small "safe" flops can payoff well against overpairs who can't fold their hands. Either way, if you think all the advice given by the other posters is not right or bad then just bookmark this thread and come back in 2-3 months when you've racked up a lot of hands.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm GMT by weirdofreek
| ziggy21 wrote: | I am a very new card player so I'm just making sure I understand all of this.
The chance of him hitting his Q on the turn is about 16%, but the pot odds are about 28%, right? So since his chance of hitting his card is lower than the pot odds, that is why it wasn't a good play???
Thanks |
16% is about 6-1 or 1/6 against if i read the post correctly he called 5 to win 12.5 which is around 1.5 to 1 odds. not good. I think you have some confusion on how to calculate odds. Take the percentage you get using the rules of 4 (which you seem to know) and change it into a fraction ie. 20% = 1/5. If you are asked to call more than this you need to fold. For example if I have a 20% chance of makeing a straight by the river then it would be 1/5 and someone bets 5 into a 20 pot I need to call 5 to win 25 or 5/25 or 1/5 and it would be a "correct" call b/c 1/5 (odds to make) is equal to 1/5 (odds to call) (other things factor in as well such as whether or not my straight will even be the best hand). If he bets 10 in to the same 20 pot now ineed to call 10 to win 30 or 1/3 and since 1/3 is greater than 1/5 i need to fold.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:24 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I don't think the play is all that bad. He has a gut shot & an overcard. Once you factor in some implied odds, it's not so bad.
Posted Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:00 pm GMT by Jauron
The implied odds are based on what exactly?
Do we just get to make up implied odds now having no real reason to think he will outside a random thought?
I could have missed something but I don't think I did here.
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