Interesting Drawing hand... odds questions |
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Posted Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:13 pm GMT by xGinNJuicex
I got reamed by other players at the table for drawing to this hand. I was wondering what anyone had to say about it. I'll explain my reasoning with it and need to know if I'm incorrect.
$10+1 Online Sit N Go, Blinds at 5/10
I'm under the gun with Q  J and I just call. 5 others call including the SB and the BB checks. Pot is 60.
The flop comes 8  10  K
The SB bets 30.
The BB raises to 140. Pot is 230
I call 140
Everyone else folds to the SB who re-raises to 250.
BB calls and I call 110.
I called the original bet of 140 thinking that only one player needs to call behind me for me to be getting more than 3 to 1 one my money, and I need at least 2 to 1 to draw to 8 outs here correct? I'm new to implied odds but I was hoping to get 1 or 2 calls behind me giving me odds to call here even with the flush draw possibility. If someone makes a big re-raise I can still get away from the hand fairly cheaply. When the SB makes such a small reraise and the BB calls, the pot is 810 and I'm now in position getting 7 to 1.
Turn 7
SB bets 235
BB Calls 235
Pot is 1280
I call 235
Now I'm getting over 5 to 1 where I need 4 to 1 to draw to my straight correct? My mistake was not taking into account the flush draw there so the 9 or A could give either player a flush. It's early yet so I don't have a read on either player. If someone's on a flush draw I've only got 6 outs and would need 7 to 1 here to call right? But if I hit one of those 6 outs there's a possibility I could bust someone.
River A 
BB checks
SB all in for 460
I move all in for 495 with the nuts
BB folds
SB shows 10 8
The other 2 guys in the hand gave me a bunch of crap so I figured I'd ask more objective folks. Did I make a big mistake or two here? How did I play this?
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Posted Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:35 pm GMT by Gunslinger
Yes, you made a big mistake on the flop. You thought you needed 2:1 odds for a straight draw, when you need (slightly more than) that ONLY IF YOU GET TO SEE THE NEXT TWO CARDS. To see JUST the turn card, you need 5:1 for an open-ended straight draw (a 9-out flush draw needs 4:1, 8 outs need a little better). When you take into consideration that 2 of your outs complete a possible flush, you really only had 6 outs on the flop, and you need over 7:1 odds just to see the turn. You would need 7:1 again to see the river (not counting any implied odds either time).
Posted Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:41 pm GMT by xGinNJuicex
| Gunslinger wrote: | | Yes, you made a big mistake on the flop. You thought you needed 2:1 odds for a straight draw, when you need (slightly more than) that ONLY IF YOU GET TO SEE THE NEXT TWO CARDS. To see JUST the turn card, you need 5:1 for an open-ended straight draw (a 9-out flush draw needs 4:1, 8 outs need a little better). When you take into consideration that 2 of your outs complete a possible flush, you really only had 6 outs on the flop, and you need over 7:1 odds just to see the turn. You would need 7:1 again to see the river (not counting any implied odds either time). |
Then did I make a mistake only when I called the original raise, but not after the fact when I called the small reraise where I was getting 7:1? Also, is there anything to say about implied odds in this situation?
Posted Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:53 pm GMT by Gunslinger
Technically, no. But in general, be careful not to make too many "loose" calls pre-flop or on the flop, if you find yourself making lots of calls later in hands that are "correct", but in situations that you shouldn't be in the first place. This leads to a dwindling chipstack.
Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:09 am GMT by Poto
Gunslinger has already said most of the things that should be said, but I do have one little thing to add. I think this is a very easy fold preflop, especially early in a SNG.
Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:02 am GMT by xGinNJuicex
| Poto wrote: | | Gunslinger has already said most of the things that should be said, but I do have one little thing to add. I think this is a very easy fold preflop, especially early in a SNG. |
Yeah I had thought about that too. When the blinds are so low I sometimes like to try and see a cheap flop with drawing hands. I played this one in way too early position. If anyone had raised preflop I most likely would have kissed my 10 chips goodbye and moved on.
Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:52 pm GMT by Phil14312
Preflop is fine, fold the flop, like others have said.
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