is there value in betting this river? |
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Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:04 pm GMT by MrDarling
Table was pretty tight. folded to most PF raises or cont bet.
Full Tilt Poker Game #1670921947: Table Summerlin - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:40:39 ET - 2007/01/25 (partial)
Seat 1: FridayNites ($9.90)
Seat 2: Spicoli 82 ($8)
Seat 3: buxnut4 ($5.45)
Seat 4: Duellum ($10.05)
Seat 5: dangerousdug ($5.60)
Seat 6: MrMojoJak ($8.85)
Seat 7: whompers ($7.25)
Seat 8: hero ($19.55)
Seat 9: mav2600 ($4.40)
FridayNites posts the small blind of $0.05
Spicoli 82 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero  
buxnut4 calls $0.10
Duellum calls $0.10
dangerousdug folds
MrMojoJak folds
whompers calls $0.10
hero raises to $0.45
mav2600 calls $0.45
FridayNites folds
Spicoli 82 folds
FridayNites adds $0.15
buxnut4 calls $0.35
Duellum has 15 seconds left to act
Duellum folds
whompers calls $0.35
*** FLOP ***   
buxnut4 checks
whompers bets $0.10
hero raises to $0.90
mav2600 folds
buxnut4 calls $0.90
whompers folds
*** TURN *** 
buxnut4 checks
hero bets $1
buxnut4 calls $1
*** RIVER *** 
buxnut4 checks
Is there any value betting here?
If there is how much and what do we do if he push?
pot is a little more then $6 villain has a little more then $3
Danny
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Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:11 pm GMT by shorn7
Yes. Hands like AJ and KJ will call you. I woul bet around 40-50% and would not fold to a push.
Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:51 pm GMT by kingetje
helllls yeah
Posted Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:20 pm GMT by Jauron
Yes put him in.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:48 am GMT by MrDarling
Yeah, I thought so also...
I bet a 1/3 of the pot, which was 2/3 is stack. He pushed and flipped 67c for the flush.
Gotta love Low limit poker
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:19 am GMT by khaosanroad
| MrDarling wrote: | Yeah, I thought so also...
I bet a 1/3 of the pot, which was 2/3 is stack. He pushed and flipped 67c for the flush.
Gotta love Low limit poker |
If your opponnent had a couple more dollars in his stack then I would have liked the way he played it.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:51 am GMT by MrDarling
| khaosanroad wrote: | | If your opponnent had a couple more dollars in his stack then I would have liked the way he played it. |
Really, chase a gutshut and a backdoor flush draw - for a total of what 6 outs?
Don't think he add odds to chase nor implied odds. He couldn't know the strength of my hand - do you think I would risk all my stack had I had only TP?
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:06 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I agree with betting the river, but I hate the way you played the rest of the hand (sorry).
Pre-flop. Raising here is not good. You want to see the flop for as little as possible, because frankly your hand is not good. Like, at all. You're not playing this hand to flop top pair... you're playing it to either flop two pair or better, or make a good draw. Raising preflop is only bound to generate a larger pot earlier in the hand than you want.
Flop. Ok, because you'd like to isolate, but don't kid yourself about the value of your hand. It really isn't that strong.
Turn. Terrible bet. You need to bet more here; a lot more.
River. The only option in my mind is to push. He has shown nothing but weakness this whole time. The only thing I would worry about is that he possibly flopped a set, but I don't see why he would just call on the turn with that (or I suppose he could have straight draw with backdoor clubs, but we can't consider that with him having so little compared to the pot). By bet is you're up against a missed draw and it won't matter much anyway if you bet; but, there are a lot of hands weaker than yours I could see him calling with, especially JT.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:36 am GMT by khaosanroad
| MrDarling wrote: | | khaosanroad wrote: | | If your opponnent had a couple more dollars in his stack then I would have liked the way he played it. |
Really, chase a gutshut and a backdoor flush draw - for a total of what 6 outs?
Don't think he add odds to chase nor implied odds. He couldn't know the strength of my hand - do you think I would risk all my stack had I had only TP? |
You're right he didn't have implied odds with his stack. That's why I said I would like his play with a bigger stack.
a LAG will often call any reasonable flop bet because
1. to hit his gut shot
2. hit a better draw
3. You might be making a C-bet on a missed flop and he may try to bluff the turn depending on how you play the turn.
many players get nervous when they get called down to the river, A good LAG knows this, and will push on the river whether they have a hand or not.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:54 am GMT by MrDarling
here is my thought process in this hand :
PF - I have good position on a passive tight table. Let me try to steal all this dead money. I raise.
Flop - I might have a good hand and I hate min raise. If I get called I shut down. bet 1/2 pot
Turn - my man. Now lets put a small bet and try to get a better kicker J or even 2 pairs to push (34s maybe) bet a little less then 1/3 - how much should I have bet?
Is there any draws I need to be afraid of here? Can some really chase a backdoor flush draw. Didn't even cross my mind to protect the hand. This bet is just a small value bet.
River - to be honest, it took dude sometime to check, so it did raise alarm bell in my head and I almost checked. If he had a bigger stack, I might have checked behind, as it was I bet big enough to pot commit my self (silly bet I often do) that way if he does push I have the right odds to call...
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:48 am GMT by exit music
| MrDarling wrote: | here is my thought process in this hand :
PF - I have good position on a passive tight table. Let me try to steal all this dead money. I raise.
Flop - I might have a good hand and I hate min raise. If I get called I shut down. bet 1/2 pot
Turn - my man. Now lets put a small bet and try to get a better kicker J or even 2 pairs to push (34s maybe) bet a little less then 1/3 - how much should I have bet? |
Preflop, as already stated this is not a good play. You are playing in a full-ring game against a couple limpers, if you plan on playing this hand either limp or raise 4xBB+1BB per limper so that's 70-80c in this case. Your raise is weak and encourages callers, it doesn't steal dead money.
Flop, with a better PF raise the pot will be bigger and with less opposition. You did hit the top pair here so you should bet more than half the pot, I'd probably make a pot bet or a 3/4ths bet in this case, you really wanna take it down now, somewhere around $1.50-2.
Turn, you have a caller and you make top 2 pair. At this point your opponent will have about the same in his stack than there is in the pot, time to push him in and see what happens.
River, by making a bigger isolation raise preflop and making a pot-sized bet on the flop, the pot is big enough by the turn to either take it down or force a draw to gamble.
However if both you and your opponent are deepstacked, a called 3/4ths on the turn, and I'm probably willing to check behind on the river if my opponent checks, especially if your opponent is passive enough to attempt a check-raise on the river.
Posted Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:38 pm GMT by aaronw
If you want to steal all of the dead money in the pot you need to raise a lot more than that. You raised 4.5 times the blind after 3 limpers (I believe). If you want to raise to steal the blinds raise 4bb + 1bb per limper.
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