How to build a pot with rocks |
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Posted Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:37 pm GMT by Carson Cashman
Ok, heres the question. You're holding JJ pre-flop. You raise the pot a tiny bit, get two tight players to call, no reraises. The board comes 58J rainbow.
Do you just bet the pot right there, bet a little, or check? I'm wondering what the best way to build a pot is against rocks.
I'm assuming its best to just check and call if someone bets back at you.
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Posted Sat Jan 25, 2003 1:31 am GMT by Nytecaster
Position of all the players is pretty important here. Even rocks loosen up sometimes in late (or even early) position especially if they have chances to steal. This hand is too complicated for the information provided.
I think that unless you have been given the impression you have been stealing you should check/call the flop and turn and check/raise the river (unless the board is scary then it's a check/call or bet/fold). If you have been stealing alot by chance maybe you could entice one of the guys in the hand with balls to raise you on the flop and then check/call the rest of the way.
Posted Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:33 am GMT by tego
I think that check raising just after the flop will scare your opposite players off to fold. Unless they have like monster 2 pair or somethin. I would wait to after the river with check/raising. But if they dont bet at all you should place like just the sum of money you think your opposite will call because of his curiosity. After the river you bet pot all depending on the two last cards of course...
Posted Mon May 30, 2005 6:18 am GMT by Jackal
You can't loosen up a bunch of rocks in one hand, it's a slow process. In a tight game you play loose. Raise just because you are on the button, get caught bluffing, just splash a few chips around. After you do that the rocks will turn into calling machines.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:55 pm GMT by Blender
i wish it was that easy.
Posted Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:08 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Actually, I watched this in action this morning. This guy was betting wild on everything... raising preflop everytime. People were getting irate. But you know what? His pile of chips was growing by a mile. People would fold to him half the time and when they didn't he always seemed to have the "goods" to take them for a ton of chips. It was interesting to watch. He must have turned off his chat because they were calling him every name in the book. LOL
Posted Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:29 pm GMT by Odin
Against a novice/weak player yes, that might work. But people get sick of being pushed around after a while. Unless you get an decent player on tilt it doesn't happen too often, and in a NL game an intelligent player will put the overly aggressive player to tough decisions many times throughout the match.
I'd say I fall on more of the tight side of playing and my specialty is breaking down aggressive players...I learned the game against 5 aggressive players and one very good tight one.
Tights sit back and watch a lot, trying to get reads on what you're doing and the time it takes to bet. The key that Jackal hit upon is setting up the big rake several hands/pots before. If you're usually tight and you hit something, try putting out a feeler bet that the tighties will respect but isn't obvious that you hit something as strong as trips, perhaps mid pair with a good kicker. Let's face it, ultimately against a group of tight players they're going to fold to you if they don't have a hand. Either check/call that flop and check/raise on the turn (unless the turn makes a possible draw, then you might want to consider protecting that great hand before it sucks you into a bad beat).
Btw: My advice is geared more towards NL, details are different if this were a limit game.
Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:25 pm GMT by theyweresooted
If I'm in early position here, I'll bet 2/3rds of the pot. I'm not too worried about scaring people off, because I'll be making the same continuation bet with AK or JT. Check raising will just let everyone know you have a monster and let mediocre hands off too cheaply. Just checking is a reasonable option if the board isn't scary, but if you're not going to induce a bluff, there's not much point in giving away a free card.
No matter how you play it against rocks, you're not going to have a huge hand here unless someone else has something great, like a lower set or a slow-played overpair. Bet out and hope to build the pot against another big hand, because if there isn't another big hand out there, you're not getting any more no matter what you do.
Posted Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:47 pm GMT by joker_king16
I like to change things up. IN a tourney, the first time I get a monster, I'll bet it high. The next time, I'll check-raise, and thereafter I'll bet mostly small and medium. This isn't really an issue for SNG games, but for MTT it can really pay off.
Posted Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:57 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I would throw a small bet out there & see if anyone caught anything. Heck, one of the rocks may even have 55 or 88. With a bet by you on the flop, they are not going to put you on the monster you are holding.
It is much more suspicous if you check the flop and then get all excited after an innocent turn card.
Posted Wed May 17, 2006 12:36 pm GMT by shorn7
IMO, the best way to win a big pot with a set is to lead and hopefully re-raise with it. The WORST thing you can do is a give a completely free card that can cost you your stack. While I agree that the baord isn't that threatening, do you really want to give a free cared to someone with QT, T9, or 97? I realize these are tighties here, but if your raise preflop was small, then these are reasonalble (suited) hands for them to play behind you.
I think I would lead for about 1/2 to 60% of the pot here. Just enough that you make any str8 draw pay, but also not so much that AJ or JT will fold. As someone else pointed out though, you need someone to have something before you can make any real $$. But if you get into the habit of leading with bg hands like sets similar to leading with unimproved AK or AQ, you will get played back at often enough to do quite well.
Posted Wed May 17, 2006 1:05 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I say play it like you do AK when you miss the flop. You raised preflop, so generally, you're going to make a continuation bet on the flop, right? Checking here will only raise suspicion (take it from a tight player). You're better off betting it. How much to bet will vary greatly on the amount in the pot after the raises and the stack sizes of your opponents. I would try to stick to a similar amount that you would bet on a continuation bet. You can make it a little less, but don't vary it too much or it will send warning signals.
I don't understand players who bet, bet, bet and then check when they hit a monster. If your opponents are paying attention at all, they will smell the rat and you'll get less or nothing out of them. If you've been making continuation bets after you raise preflop, do it again. They'll not see a variation in your betting pattern and, unless they have absolutely nothing and no draw, they'll be more likely to put some money in the pot.
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