Posted Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:58 am GMT by lwestatbus
How do you deal with the ever present threat of a set against you? There are a number of hands such as AK flopping TP-TK, AA, KK, or even QQ that remain the overpair on the flop but if these hands don't improve they are always vulnerable to somebody's 22, etc., making a set.
How do you play hands such as Top Pair/Top (or Good) Kicker, Overpairs, or Two Pair from the flop onward? Assume that there is no other obvious threat on the board (such as a pair, 2-suited, or straight draw). Please specify if you are FL, NL ring, or NL tourny and please feel free to discuss all three.
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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:15 pm GMT by khaosanroad
I play Top pair top kicker differently from overpair. With TPTK I am more cautious because your opponent knows what you have and I am more cautious when he bets into me and raises me so I'm more likely to lay it down to resistance.
Overpair is trickier. Your opponent might put you on a missed flop and be betting into you or raising with a low or mid PP. I am much more likely to call a bet or a raise when I have an overpair. IF I have an overpair and my opponent does the old C/R, I will usually call depending on the size of his raise. MinRaise is insta call or reraise for me. If He does the C/R again on the turn I may just let it go depending on my read of the guy if he pushes all-in on the turn I probably let it go.
I may be making some bad laydowns at times but by the end of the session I'm usually still ahead.
Posted Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:31 pm GMT by MrDarling
I started a thread about it a while back -
We said we almost never fold a set, and we also said we almost always pay sets.
That doesn't mean I'm calling my stack off with TPTK. Thats players depended. but like stated above, I am more willing to call my stack off with big over pairs...
You can't always fear the set. Sometimes, you can assume someone has a set from the betting structure...
Posted Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:10 am GMT by tame_deuces
It depends so completely on what kind of game you are in this. I mean...if you are playing 10NL people could play some TPNK just as hard as a set, but if you're sitting at some full ring 200NL tables full of nits then aggression on flop/turn could almost always be strength...and if the games grow more advanced you'd usually be up against some sort of draw OR set/better.
Then who are you playing. I mean if you are playing a 50% vpiper who is aggro then folding hands as you described is usually a bad idea. If he is a complete nit that increases the chance you are trailing etc. Anything in between and you have to consider the pot odds vs how often you think you are ahead.
Then comes how many players are in the pot with you and how the action went preflop.
I mean, if you're playing a classic tag and the action went he bet, you raise with kings and he calls and the flop comes 2TJ then you have to watch out.
In FL you should go to showdown the majority of the time on non-scary boards imho, as you can often get to showdown just as cheap as some sort of aggro/then fold type of line. I also think doing this will give you the experience to get a feel for when you are behind and can safely fold.
Actually for FL the tough part is usually to recognize when you SHOULDN'T take a weak line and instead go aggro and 3-bet/cap your hand. Well, imho atleast.
In NL you should def find folds at times, but getting weak is a bigger danger than paying a little off. Paying off is a habit that disappears with experience as you'll learn when you are wrong with time. Getting weak usually comes to stay.
But I also think the question is a little to wide to be answered thourougly.
Posted Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:02 pm GMT by Felting
I play FL mostly 3/6 but have been playing some 4/8 too now.
with a board like what you described i call down with TPTK and Overpair minus raise reraise action.
Two pair is ram and jam time.
Posted Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:04 am GMT by jeffonline
Nothing I hate more than hitting TPTK or having an Over pair, leading out on every street with no obvious draws, only to have the caller go over the top of my river bet, then realizing that I am up against a possible set.
I don’t find it any easier if the villain leads,
Either way you seem to cop it, If you pay a lot for information early and get called or re-raised, then you can possibly get out. If you don’t pay for the information early then you pay at the end. Either way it always costs.
Posted Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:42 am GMT by Phil14312
In FL, which I think you play mostly...
I find you need to look at the texture of the board....getting raised and reraised on a board of K 7 4 when you hold AK...well there aren't too many hands you beat now, you tie another AK, maybe KQ.
Well...Take a board like J 8 Q and you hold AA. There are a lot more hands someone could be raising with, like pairs and gutshots, open-ended straight draws, KK, etc.
Generally, I call down if I'm raised on the turn with a board like J 8 Q 7 or something with an overpair or AQ type hand. However, when you are raised on a board like T 7 7 6 on the turn, well...you only beat now basically beat an overplayed ten or another overpair, it might be time to fold.
I think the biggest thing about folding strong hands like these is board texture and opponents tendencies. Unfortunately, that means there aren't any easy answers, yes, it sucks, but....It all depends.
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