Trip 10s in the SB, river decision |
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Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:57 pm GMT by exit music
This hand happened in a live game, I really don't know how I should have played this hand better. Sadly it's not formatted great but I'll try to make it readable:
Dealt to hero:  
Blinds are .50c/$1.00
MP1 ($35) calls
CO ($45) calls
Button (65$) calls
HERO SB ($38) call
BB checks.
FLOP:    , pot $5
Hero bet $3, MP1 calls, Button calls.
TURN:  , pot $11
Hero bets $6, MP1 folds, button raise to $12, hero calls
River:  , pot $35
Hero ($22) ???
Eeeek I'm trapped in a big pot with a hand that doesn't beat much.
Bet/call, Check/call, check/fold, check/raise
What you do?
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Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:31 pm GMT by Ensano
| exit music wrote: | | I really don't know how I should have played this hand better... |
fold preflop...
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:02 pm GMT by exit music
| Ensano wrote: | | exit music wrote: | | I really don't know how I should have played this hand better... |
fold preflop... |
Getting 9:1
O RLY?
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:27 pm GMT by aaronw
Yes really.
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:54 pm GMT by Ensano
| exit music wrote: | | Ensano wrote: | | exit music wrote: | | I really don't know how I should have played this hand better... |
fold preflop... |
Getting 9:1
O RLY? |
yes... the blinds are a really tricky spot... you're OOP but the only real reason people lose money from those spots is because they play way too loose from them... 10-2o is not a calling hand...
Here are your chances ON THE FLOP:
Chance of getting a Straight Flush on the flop:
Impossible
Chance of getting 4-of-a-kind on the flop:
1 in 9800.00
Chance of getting a Full House on the flop:
1 in 1088.89
Chance of getting a Flush on the flop:
Impossible
Chance of getting a Straight on the flop:
Impossible
Chance of getting 3-of-a-kind on the flop:
1 in 63.64
Chance of getting 2 Pair on the flop:
1 in 24.75
Chance of getting 1 Pair on the flop:
1 in 3.71
Chance of getting a Four Flush on the flop:
1 in 44.55
Chance of NO overcards coming down on the flop:
1 in 3.28
Chance of ONE overcard coming down on the flop:
1 in 2.18
Chance of TWO overcards coming down on the flop:
1 in 4.80
Chance of THREE overcards coming down on the flop:
1 in 35.00
Chance of ANY overcards coming down on the flop:
1 in 1.44
so what hands there do you like that you're getting the right price in the long run to see?
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:28 pm GMT by TheSalche
Pot odds are deceptive and nearly useless in NL cash games in multiway pots ... at least preflop.
This isn't FL when you know the future bet sizes.
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:50 pm GMT by exit music
Well apparently everyone thinks I should fold preflop, I still don't exactly agree with this... but that's not the issue.
All disagreements behind, lets assume that you called blind from the SB just for shits and giggles.
Now does anyone have thoughts about how the hand should be played?
Fold PF is such a cop-out answer.
Real analysis please!
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:54 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
I call preflop, but post flop I would play differently. You really don't want to hit top pair in this situation for exactly what just happened to you. Most of the time, the action you get will be from people that have you dominated. Ideally you want to hit 2pair on the flop, then you can play it aggressively like you did. Too often when you make trips like this, the only time theres a lot of action is when you have a 2nd best hand.
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:55 pm GMT by exit music
| Ensano wrote: | Chance of ANY overcards coming down on the flop:
1 in 1.44
so what hands there do you like that you're getting the right price in the long run to see? |
I like my odds of an overcard!
Errr nevermind... and yeah mathematically I'm not getting great odds to flop the straight flush, maybe I should fold 
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:46 pm GMT by Phil14312
I would check the flop and see how the other players act. I don't really want to put in a lot of money here. If you are behind, you are probably drawing to fewer than 5 outs. If you are ahead, half the deck is probably going to outdraw you. If the action goes bet, call, I would usually dump it.
Posted Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:52 pm GMT by TheSalche
ensano was pointing out that this hand is weak because it has poor chances of forming a good & profitable hand
with T2, if you hit a monster flop, say 22T, you're probably not getting paid off by much
and fold preflop is "real analysis" because it is what you should've done, as played you should probably fold the turn without a read on the button, you have a hand very likely to be 2nd best and you could easily be drawing dead here, you will be facing a sizeable river bet, since i doubt villain has air here a lot
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:05 am GMT by aaronw
Your against multiple opponents too, which makes it less likely to make the best hand. Would you call with 72o? What makes T2o much different?
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:44 am GMT by Ensano
kk... everything aside you're now at the turn with this... no reads on anyone... assuming random players... you're dominated in this hand...
I like the flop bet... with normal players it could give you an idea of where you stand (overcards get a chance to fold... people will lay down 2nd or third pair or med to low PP)...
2 callers on the flop... someone has a 10 or a set... and with a 2 as your kicker I guarantee you're outkicked...
turn bet is ok cause you can't just give up cause someone called your flop bet but bet more...
they raised!!... they now just told you twice that you were beat... it's tough but fold the set...
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:45 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I fold the turn. What hand that's not a bluff can you beat? Overpair? I sincerely doubt it. Pocket 9's? Again, don't think so.
Other than that, the play looks fine, but I probably either check the flop or bet a little less. But the way it was played, I almost have to fold the turn unless I have a reason to think villain is bluffing.
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:11 am GMT by MrDarling
yeah, few things I started to do to minimize the leaks in MY game :
Fold pre flop - Unless you are very good post flop. You'd usually lose more money then make. i often want to open fold from the BB. When I do complete I keep telling my self : " pairs or better.
Flop : check / call reasonable bet. All you have is TPNK. You don't want a big pot here. if someone steal your half a blind, so be it!
Turn : fold to the raise - with no reads and no raise pre flop its probably not an over pair. So chances are you're beaten. Do you really want to put all your stack in with this hand?
River : check / fold. Unless the bet is really really small.
Or since its live maybe push and tell him before he acts that if he has a better boat he deserves your money 
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:16 am GMT by shorn7
I also would fold preflop despite th great odds (this one of the few hands I would fold preflop getting 9-1).
As played, I probably fold the turn too because you could be drawing dead here. That being said, I would probably have checked the turn with my hand to keep the pot a bit smaller. You can do this here because you might already be behind so giving a free card (if your opponent checks behind you) is OK. If he bets the turn, then I have to re-evaluate. But I would probably call the turn and hope for a free showdown on the river.
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:45 pm GMT by exit music
okay thanks for the comments, here was my thought process during the hand.
-firstly, this wasn't just against random players, it was at my home game with people i know incredibly well, been playing people with these people for over a year now.
Preflop: getting 9:1, it's rare that a flop limps around in this game, I don't mind playing shitty cards with these people because I can feel my way pretty well. I called the .50c
Flop: top pair, this is not a terrible result for my hand, but I am in the worst possible position. I didn't want to just check/fold the flop and I really didn't want to check/call the flop because that doesn't really let me know where I stand. Decided to lead out for 3/5ths to see where I'm at.
Teh Turn: Trippies, I was happy to see the 10 on 4th street, on a medium draw-y board I figured that these guys could easily be donking around with a draw or a shitty pair and just using position to put a squeeze on my ass. This is the street where everything went wrong. I bet out again because I was agains 2 relative calling stations, although the button has a vendetta against me because I basically never lose big pots to him and know exactly when to call him down with f*ck all. Anyways, button raised it up. I could fold here but if you knew this guy and his range of raising hands you'd have called too, just to see what happens on the river, he's liable make this raise with anything just so I check to him on the end. If I was smarter and more confident in my read I would have pushed in here, but I just called.
Teh RIVER: Okay so i've messed up at least 2 streets so far in this hand, why not f*ck up the river too, I checked, he pushed in and I folded.
To my excruciating dispair he mucked his hand, even though I showed him the trip 10s. After this hand finished I just got the feeling that I had been bluffed, I should have 3 bet this turn, a bet which he'd have to fold to unless he actually had a set.
So yeah either he has a full house, or f*ck all. It's god to know that each of you chose the fold option, but yeah I'm pretty sure I should have played this to the river and pushed on the turn.
Thanks for the thought process everyone
Posted Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:43 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
IF you thought he was bluffing you should just call the turn and then call the river.
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