Just began playing and keeping on losing |
|
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:51 am GMT by set
Warning: this is very long and most likely very similar to what most newbies like me experience. My english is also very imperfect so please bear with me 
Hi, i'm new here and to the game in general and i want to share how i did so far as well as ask a few questions here and there.
For some time i've been playing Play-Money NL games, i was doing all right, but i thought playmoney wasn't really helping me progress or even understand the game, so i decided to make a tiny step forward, deposit $50 at pokerstars and start playing in micro games ($0.02/0.04).
At the same time i began looking for good beginners books, cause i'm pretty serious about not losing these $50! I took Poker for Dummies and Lee Jones' Winning low limit Hold'em.
I've not had much to do these recent days so i spent them playing and reading, not at the same time, except when i needed to check something about starting hands. I also watch poker tv shows but it's more for entertaining than anything. It's not like i'm going to learn how to beat 0.02$ games thanks to professional bluffs.
The result is kind of disastrous and odd. I was positive for the most few games, just by playing with feeling. I would start games with 0.80$ and leave with 1.30$ or something. Maybe (most likely) i was playing bad people, or had a little bit of luck. I think it's luck because it was just for a day of playing. 4 hours or something. I did call too many hands, i just got lucky it all went fine.
Then I started reading. I read Poker for Dummies and tried using the knowledge i got from it in my games.
The most important things i learned, and that i didn't really know up to then were:
- Tight hand selection
- Importance of the position
- Being aggressive on the few good hands
- Flop: fit or fold
- Some statistical stuff like pot odds.
I think i learned quite a bit from that, i can also add that through playing, i learned to read the way my opponents play a bit better, to recognize tight from loose players. etc.
BUT. I keep on losing.
I lost 4 dollars in just 3 days. that's kind of a lot for $0.04 games. I guess it would be like losing 1000$ in 3 days only with $10 games? 
I tried my best. I do many mistakes, i can't say i don't, but i also learn a lot. And by learning, i would except to win more, but i actually lose more.
There's kind of a pattern to what happened to me these last few days:
I play very tightly 
Most players around in these kinds of games are very loose players. Most of the time one or two players are loose and agressive. Half the players are loose, and 3 players or so are neutral/tight.
I am clearly on the tight side of the force in these games. I wait for my good hands, depending my position. I would play A 8 middle, but not early. Low pairs only late. I don't play suited connectors much.
My good hands get beat by better hands 
The few hands i play, i play them aggressively. If i have a good pair (JJ and up) i bet/raise, to eliminate my weak-but-dangerous-opponents-cards.
But the problem is: they don't fold easily, and one of them often get what he wants. If at the river my hand has only barely improved but someone is still heavily calling/raising, it's obvious they have a very good hand, but i somewhat still have an okay hand (top pair good kicker, overpair). Considering the size of the pot at that point, pot odds are tiny and my hand is above average, so even though a straight/flush/full is threatening, i'm not sure i should fold? Considering the success i have, i guess i should, but it makes me wonder when i'm going to see the river.
It is kind of frustrating to pass on many hands, flops, turns, river, just to see guys winning with bad starting hands. You also fold on what become big pots that you could have won if you had played, even if the win wasn't likely. Even more when at the end, you lose all your money.
Here are a few statistics from PokerStars (only counts real money):
On my last 100 hands:
- saw flop: 31%
- went to showdown: 9%
- won showdown: 22%
- won 0 pots without showdown.
On my last 610 hands (total):
- saw flop: 34%
- went to showdown: 11,6%
- won showdown: 47%
- won 21 pots without showdown.
Conclusion: i get tighter, and i lose. I don't want to blame bad luck cause i'm supposed to guess when i lose and catch up my loses later.
If you read all this, thank you for your patience. If you have any advice or opinion, please let me know! 
Following is a typical game i lose.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:58 am GMT by set
*********** # 2 **************
PokerStars Game #8320805945: Hold'em Limit ($0.02/$0.04) - 2007/02/07 - 05:55:51 (ET)
Table 'Phyleus' 10-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Hothope ($1.16 in chips)
Seat 2: qlmaik ($0.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Deerhorns ($0.71 in chips)
Seat 5: set_fr ($0.65 in chips)
Seat 6: dudebln ($1.30 in chips)
Seat 7: TDLawrence ($1.17 in chips)
Seat 8: hillemaus3 ($0.96 in chips)
Seat 9: Kilogixxer ($2.48 in chips)
Seat 10: Martin25_75 ($0.82 in chips)
Martin25_75: posts small blind $0.01
Hothope: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to set_fr  
qlmaik: calls $0.02
Deerhorns: folds
set_fr: raises $0.02 to $0.04
dudebln: folds
TDLawrence: folds
hillemaus3: calls $0.04
Kilogixxer: calls $0.04
Martin25_75: folds
Hothope: calls $0.02
qlmaik: calls $0.02
*** FLOP ***   
Hothope: bets $0.02
qlmaik: folds
set_fr: raises $0.02 to $0.04
hillemaus3: calls $0.04
Kilogixxer: folds
Hothope: calls $0.02
*** TURN *** 
Hothope: checks
set_fr: bets $0.04
hillemaus3: calls $0.04
Hothope: calls $0.04
*** RIVER *** 
Hothope: checks
set_fr: checks
hillemaus3: bets $0.04
Hothope: calls $0.04
set_fr: calls $0.04
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hillemaus3: shows   (a straight, Seven to Jack)
Hothope: mucks hand
set_fr: mucks hand
hillemaus3 collected $0.55 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.57 | Rake $0.02
Board
Seat 1: Hothope (big blind) mucked  
Seat 2: qlmaik folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Deerhorns folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: set_fr mucked
Seat 6: dudebln folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: TDLawrence folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: hillemaus3 showed and won ($0.55) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 9: Kilogixxer (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 10: Martin25_75 (small blind) folded before Flop
At first, i was trying to make people fold, to get rid of the dangerous weak hands, like suited, connector hands.
On the flop, i still had the overpair, quite a good one nonetheless, plus the guy that made a bet preflop folded. So i had the advantage. The flop didn't look so dangerous.
I was still confident on the turn and tryed to get rid of some people that were still hopefull.
On the River, i saw the straight and got scared, so i checked. The other guy raised. Considering the size of the pot, i thought i had to call.
Didn't work. I guess i could have folded on the river..
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:49 am GMT by tame_deuces
Don't fold the river in the QQ hand, well played hand throughout. The pot is so big that calling with a losing hand is a minimal mistake while folding a winner is an enormous mistake.
One of the hardest parts about poker is understanding that you can make all the right moves and still lose. Poker isn't fair.
I haven't played fixed limit hold'em on these stakes, but I'm guessing the swings back and forth must be enormous due to sheer number of players to the flop in each hand, and that's poker for you also...you'll bounce back and forth between losing and winning and some session will end down.
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:14 am GMT by MrDarling
Its pretty normal for most beginner to lose their first few deposits. At least you have started right, reading books and studying and it also seems you understand BR management.
I'm also not a FL player. To me it seems much more technical then NL and the veriance are much bigger, especially in these limits. I suspect people will call to SD with any pair or even any overcards.
The trick is probably to value bet your Monster and call the good hand.
The above hand is a good example. You bet the hand while ahead and checked/call while behind. Thats poker for you.
Like Tame stated, a lot of the time we do the right move but still lost. But in the long run, the right move will gain us money.
If it makes you feel any better, I made my first deposit July 2006. Since then I deposited a total of $430. And only now I've stopped losing and hoping to gain on my loses by the end of this month (currently sitting with $300).
Good luck.
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:39 am GMT by set
Thanks for your replies. I guess i'll be more patient and not worry too much if my BL slowly melts down.
From what you say, i suppose i should take higher stakes asap, to have more stable results. Because calling is almost too easy in these games and make it a bit more unpredictable.
I won't precipitate things too much though.
I may have more questions later:)
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:06 pm GMT by MrDarling
No, no , no and NO.
Strange as it my seem , its better to play against worse players.
Sure they might call with worse hands and suckout on you on the end. But usually, they wont suck out. Play the percentage.
if you are 60% favorite to win, you'd still lose 4 times out of 10. but the bad players will pay you the other 6 times, while the better player wont.
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:26 pm GMT by Ensano
| MrDarling wrote: | No, no , no and NO.
Strange as it my seem , its better to play against worse players.
Sure they might call with worse hands and suckout on you on the end. But usually, they wont suck out. Play the percentage.
if you are 60% favorite to win, you'd still lose 4 times out of 10. but the bad players will pay you the other 6 times, while the better player wont. |
that's correct advise to a point... you obviously want to play against worse players but sometimes a move is needed...
I started playing poker at the 5$NL tables so I'm no stranger to the lowest of the micro tables... and I can honestly say there is a point where the game turns into bingo...
if you play too low lvls you won't be able to play poker... you don't get 60/40 edges... for example with AA (I'm looking for someone who knows what the percentage is) you need to thin the field... if you're getting 6 callers it makes it near impossible to come out ahead also your variance will be ridiculously higher...
so what I'd recommend, seeing as how you seem to be willing to reload anyways, is top up your account to 100$ and move up in stakes... I'm not recommending any big jump, but from what you said in your first post I'm willing to bet that you can beat the .10/.20FL tables...
and remember stay within the stakes that you have at least 300BB in you bankroll
Posted Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:20 pm GMT by set
| MrDarling wrote: | No, no , no and NO.
Strange as it my seem , its better to play against worse players.
Sure they might call with worse hands and suckout on you on the end. But usually, they wont suck out. Play the percentage.
if you are 60% favorite to win, you'd still lose 4 times out of 10. but the bad players will pay you the other 6 times, while the better player wont. |
I won't switch before I win at a constant enough rate and I feel ready to do it. It's just that, as Ensano said, micro tables make the game feel even more random.
To me, they don't seem to be that good for progression. Because you may win without playing well, and lose without playing bad, at a higher rate than other tables.
For now, I'm just going to exercise all i learn from the beginners books on these micro tables. But I'll be glad when i'm ready to get out of there. Not for my wallet, but for the fun of the game.
|
|
