Should we call value bets |
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Posted Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:28 pm GMT by MrDarling
Do we always call value bets with decent hands?
Its great playing at micro levels when villain tell you they have a monster and over bet. But rarely you play with good players that actually value bet. You are priced to call with your 2 pair, over pair, and even TPTK.
So, is it a leak to call those, when you think you are behind? With a good value bet (1/3 pot?) you need to be right 25% of the time to break even.
Sure, once you have reads it is easy to fold good hands, but what about usually?
discuss
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Posted Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:04 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Someone bets 1/3 ot the pot you get 4:1 odds, so winning 1 out of 5 is enough.
That's very good odds for calling if you got a hand, should def think twice before folding to that.
Posted Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:19 pm GMT by lwestatbus
I'm the last person who should be giving advice on NL (and even FL lately) but I have seen a number of situations in televised games where a bluffer bets out an amount that screams 'Value Bet' as it is much more believable than an overbet.
Posted Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:50 pm GMT by MrDarling
Yeah, I do that also (Sadly the fish at micro levels don't understand that)
The point of this thread is : Should we call a 1-4 turn or river bet even if we are almost sure we are behind. We only need to be wrong 1 out of 5 to make this call EV 0
Posted Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:14 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Calling the turn is obv completely different from calling the river, as you aren't even sure you'll get a showdown for the prize of the call, + other factors like outs etc. come into play also.
I don't quite get what you want, if you want some kind of justification for laying down ok hands for small bets I'm not going to give it to you because that's the road to nittyville right there. Sweeping generalizations is not the way to determine when to fold on the river and people are generally 100% certain too often for their own good.
I'd start exploring the realm of when to raise on a bluff instead of worrying about folding my ok hand for a 1/3 pot bet.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:27 am GMT by snoogins47
Is there actually an answerable question in this post?
"Should we call a 1-4 turn or river bet even if we are almost sure we are behind. "
So what you're asking here, is "What percentage value do I specifically mean when I feel I am 'almost surely' behind? That's a good question. You might want to answer it yourself.
It's a leak to call if you're so likely behind that the odds dictate a fold... it's a leak to fold if you're ahead enough of the time that the odds dictate a call.. so, in conclusion, what?
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:30 am GMT by MrDarling
lol.
Yeah I guessed its confusing.
An example : You have AJs in co. You open raise 4XBB
Fold to BB who call.
Flop comes 7A3 rainbow. checked to you. you bet, he call.
Turn T. He leads 1/3 pot.
you are not crazy about your kicker, but the bet is too low to fold, right?
So you call.
River another blank and again he leads for 1/3 the pot..
He might have 2 pairs, he might have a better kicker. But we can't fold this, can we?
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:26 pm GMT by Jauron
It depends.
I hate to try to give anything that resembles a this is what you do here answer cause it's gonna vary depending on a lot of things but... if someone I don't know is value betting the hell out of a hand and I don't see a lot of ways I'm beat I'm going to call it down. If nothing else, I get to see what types of hands he is willing to do this with.
You have to start giving him hand ranges to do the math, and it's not always easy to do against an unknown player (or at least the range is usually bigger).
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