putting opponents on tilt |
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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:25 am GMT by exit music
Getting your opponent to do really stupid shit is probably one of the best ways to make money in poker. Tilted opponenest spew chips all over the place.
Tony G is probably the best person in the world at tilting his opponents, he's a massive dick, this clip is a prime example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvCn_KbLpLY
I want to know everyone's tactics on making an opponent tilt.
Here are some examples:
-Making fun of an opponent when they do something stupid
-Telling your opponent how horrible they are when they outdraw you
-Bitching at opponents when they wake up with a big hand, even if you didn't play the hand very well
-Slow Rolling when you have a big hand, thinking and thinking about calling a big bet when you have the stone nuts just to give your opponent the sad hope that you might not be folding
I'm not saying I use these tactics, although I can't really say I haven't used these tactics.
What are your opinions on using tilting maneuvers and what other strategy do you know that would effectively put your opponent on tilt?
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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:58 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Or you could, you know... NOT be a complete ass.
Seriously, it pisses me off that people think this is a good thing in Poker.
The only way I put an opponent on tilt is to trade small mistakes for big ones, or to give people the perception I'm playing badly when I'm not.
If someone is going to be put on tilt by you acting like a jackass, he probably isn't that great of a player anyway and may just lose his chips some other way. Making fun of people, berating them, and especially slowrolling is never appropriate in my mind, unless you know the other party is cool with it.
You can be a gentleman and still win in Poker.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:51 am GMT by aaronw
Yeah, I agree with DC here. There is no need to be a jackass at the table and try to put people on tilt. If that is the only way you can win, I suggest you learn how to play properly. Show some class and respect towards others.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:51 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| Quote: | | Everything Diamond and aaron said. |
QFT.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:57 pm GMT by BeerWench13
I usually tilt a player just by winning. You'd be amazed at how many guys tilt significantly when they lose to a chick.
I've also tilted players just by not saying a word or by agreeing with them when they talk down to me. I posted in another thread about this. I got paid rather well just by agreeing when they say I'm an awful player.
Being a luckbox will tilt a player pretty quickly too.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:13 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Yep. What DC said. I think poker ought to be gentleman's game (for both genders though  ), and you should strive to keep players at your table and let them have a good time instead of driving them off. Especially so in cash games or games with regulars.
A happy bad player which will come back is worth two times a disgruntled bad player.
And for cashgames/regular games I would also avoid the 'hollywood moments' of a cool staredown or similar antics. Just make people feel comfortable.
Look at high stakes poker, maybe not the best of examples, but all I got which we can all relate to. See how nice the players are to the 'live ones' (all is relative) and the generally lighthearted mood. That's def. one of the reasons why this bunch of players have reached the stakes they are at, people haven't avoided playing with them.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:26 pm GMT by MasterMike
I tried doing that a couple times but im not that kind of person, and its hard to try to do consistently. Ive tried doing it with a couple poker buddies who i know can send themselves into tilt, nothing vicious, but i just felt like an ass after a little bit. If i got sucked out big time, ill say, "wow, i mean how could you call?" or something, or all go on a mini humorous rant, but thats not so much bashing the player but just to get me to relax and keep people happy.
Normally i just joke around or poke fun at someone at the table, but its all in good fun and everyone can get a laugh at it.
Posted Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:02 pm GMT by exit music
| tame_deuces wrote: |
Look at high stakes poker, maybe not the best of examples, but all I got which we can all relate to. See how nice the players are to the 'live ones' (all is relative) and the generally lighthearted mood. That's def. one of the reasons why this bunch of players have reached the stakes they are at, people haven't avoided playing with them. |
Don't you recall when the players shit-talked mike donkasow and paid him 1K each to keep playing? He was on rabid tilt and bluffed away about 100K with absolutely nothing against the second nut flush.
They are nice to jerry buss, but that's only b/c he gives them all lakers tickets.
I am very much not a shit-talker, especially in live games, I'm rediculously quiet, although online I'll occasionally toss out an odd jab at someone. I've noticed that occasional verbal abuse will sometimes tilt opponents in HU matches.
Although what tilts a player more than anything else is playing ideal poker and not making any big mistakes.
Posted Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:51 am GMT by MrDarling
In HSP they do jab each other, but usually in an half humorous tone.
When they pay The Mouth to stay it was because he was already tilting - and no one can tilt Mike better then himself.
I have never seen someone successfully tilting someone else (On the tv shows I watch)
Tony G, didn't tilt that russian player. The guy felt Tony G was weak and made the right move. Tony G made the bad call, and this time, he was right. His and was slightly infront. If anyone was tilted there, it was the G man.
Posted Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:07 pm GMT by lwestatbus
First, I agree with the theme that DC, TD, and some authors expressed to the effect that you don't want to run off your fish. I think Daniel Negreanu is the premier example of someone who can probably make you feel good about losing and want to pay more to repeat the experience.
Second, and my main point, I think that the tilter (person trying to put someone else on tilt) runs two pretty major risks unless they are really in control of what they are doing.
1. They give up information about what they know about poker. At my small stakes games I watch for tilters comments to myself and others and I can recognize when they are criticizing solid play (e.g., late position calls with marginal hands to many limpers or calling down an inside straight draw when it is justified by pot odds). Last night a guy with 56suited in the BB called a raise with six callers to the raise already to him. He flopped one pair, a backdoor flush draw AND a backdoor straight draw, saw the turn for one bet, made two pair on the turn, and won the pot to the original raiser's pocket KK. Raiser went off on the guy (and had been obnoxious to others) for what I thought was perfectly reasonable play. This tells me a lot about the tilter's own skills.
2. I think that the tilters are really subject to going on their own tilt when they get hammered by someone they've been targeting. It's one thing when tilter's victim wins with a great starting hand like AA but it's even better when victim plays less powerful cards correctly to build and win a big pot from tilter. I think that the self-tilting is magnified a LOT in these cases. One example was some weasely punk kid in the 2006 WSOP who was flamingly rude to everyone at his table. When he finally took a big hit he started playing really poorly and ended up out. Mike the Mouth is also famous for this. The 2005 (or 2006?) clash between Mouth and The Sheik was the clash of the Titans of Obnoxiousness and I think that both of them got each other and themselves on tilt.
I think that Tony G is the kind of guy who can play solidly enough to be less affected by reverse tilt.
TD wrote "Poker ought to be a gentlemen's game". Life ought to be a gentleperson's game and failing to behave in a gentlemanly or gentlewomanly manner will label you and impact you, in poker or anywhere. The phrase "An Officer and a Gentleman" comes to us from a time when military officers were expected to try to kill their opponents on the field of battle but to treat them (and everyone else) with respect and courtesy when the fighting was through. I think it says a lot for those professionals you see who clearly like and admire their opponents. And somehow Mike the Mouth actually seems to have some admirers among the professional community. Go figure.
Posted Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:46 pm GMT by LCFC17
Strange I read this thread as I only just watched the episode where mike is paid to stay and then phil laak wipes him out just and hour - 2 hours ago, shame because I quite like the mouth.
Posted Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:07 pm GMT by snoogins47
As much as I hate to admit it, there's probably a lot to this sort of thing.
I'm generally pretty mild mannered, though I've done my fair share of tilt-inducing through, err, dynamic plays. Once they start berating me/somebody else, however, I do everything in my power to keep them going, both because it's entertaining, and because it helps. Mostly though, this tends to keep me focused on sustaining tilt in the tilt-monkeys: I don't have to pick targets, because they come to me.
There's plenty of 'respect' things, etiquette issues, blah blah. I find I've got some sense of 'decency' instilled in me that defies logic. But there is a simple fact: we gain from our opponent's mistakes. If we can do something to make them make more/bigger ones, our earn goes up.
To be honest, I've always thought it interesting that this subject is often quite taboo, and doesn't get discussed all that often. Not surprising, really, but interesting.
I'll probably bore everybody with a long rant about it, but I mainly just want to say: jackass methods or no, there's definitely something to the whole thing.
Posted Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:14 pm GMT by supafrey
For me the problem comes in striking a definite balance between just how much of a jerk I should be - despite it being contrary to my personality..
Believe it or not, I am sickeningly polite in real life to strangers. The type to hold doors, and shit. At the poker table, my mediocre bankroll is still enough for plenty of buyins so I don't actually get upset about anything that could happen monetarily. I take my beatins fairly easily and even Scan has commented that I'm one of the "best losers" he knows. I don't brag (i honestly feel a bit guilty when I outplay most people) and I usually just lightly chuckle at on-table antics.
The problem is that i KNOW I could be making more money if I was a jerk. People always say that when you "sit at a table" with someone you are willfully risking your own money and that your opponent should hold nothing back - for the most part I agree with this theoretically but I just can't quite bring myself to do it. The people that talk about poker being a gentleman's game are deluding themselves. For the most part, poker has just as many scumbags as any other group of people, and the added amount of desperation for money (there's a lot of badly losing players) probably doesn't shed the best light on these people. They are actively TRYING TO TAKE MY MONEY and yet I still can't bring myself to act the way I should to maximize my profits.
We really have to take a look at WHY we play this game.. if it's to maximize our winnings then we MUST take any route legally allowed within the rules of play.. If talking is one of them, arbitrary self-regulation in terms of etiquette are COSTING you money, and you HAVE to be okay with it and UNDERSTAND why you're willing to give up money for whatever other purpose (fun, being nice, etc).
There are definitely places where tilting people verbally would work and should work. Whether or not to do them is a moral decision.
As a poker strategy aside, reread what Wlestbus about observing other players' knowledge of the game, complaints, gribes, bad beat stories, etc. That paragraph was mfing gold for any player.
Posted Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:17 pm GMT by jimmer
I think you need to do more than just put the other guy on tilt.
I'm all up for gaining an edge any way i can. Lets face it, i'm not playing poker to socialise, i'm playing to win.
However, i've been in situations where i've managed to wind up some guy and he's just come back at me bigger and better. I then end up looking a right donk.
When you get knocked down, some players hide in the corner. Others come out fighting.
The secret is to know who to target and when to hit them.
Most players can do one or the other, very few can do both.
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