Posted Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:59 pm GMT by General Sal
I know I'll get a little lambasted for this one, but I had a feeling I was right....
So, I have a friend in town at the Rio, and she hadn't called me back... so around 3pm I go there, just so that I'll already be there for when she does call. They don't have a 1/2NL game, just 4/8FL and 2/5NL. I take the 2/5 NL table, and buyin for $300.
Overall, it's one of those talkative loose tables. You get a few limpers, and a raise to $35... that seemed to be the breaking point.
Right when I get to the table, I see this guy go all in on 789 flop. My soon to be nemesis (we'll call him pink polo) calls. He has the dummy end of the straight. The other guy had two pair. I watch pink polo's stack swell from $200 up to $700, and he really opens up his game from there. We're talking limpin with 4 7 suited in middle position. But, he's also aggressive with the non premium hands. This kind of guy can be kind of dangerous to your stack... at the same time though his play is affecting the overall mood of the table... people move all-in with a pair!
Now, I play a few hands, and get KK cracked by AK. I'm not really steaming, but I know I'm in for a short session (which I usually do not like to play.) I dip down to as low as $125, moving back up to $200.
I get caught up in a preliminary hand with pink polo... everyone fold to me at the button, and I limp with   . He raises from the big blind to $15. Small blind also calls. Small blind checks and he checks, which is a surprise 'cause he normally bets. He also calls out, "Everyone must have an ace." I bet $35 on the low flop and small blind folds, and he thinks then folds. I show my bluff. He kind of warns me, or really rather I'd say he's trying to scare me into not betting. Hey, I'm playing position. Pink polo was definitely from out of town, and well, he wasn't a bad player. He knows how to fold a hand, even after a beer or two. We get into another hand later, where I had pocket aces on the button, and he raised with pocket fours from early position... I reraise his $15 to $50, he calls and a middle position player folds. I bet a king high flop, and he thinks and folds.
So, the big hand.... he limps in for five dollars from early position. Someone calls behind him for $5. I hold   on the button, and raise to $20. Small blind and big blind fold. He reraises to $40! Middle position folds. I stop and think... so I just call. Something's weird here... I know this is a popular play for someone with aces, but I don't think he has it. I think he's making a move. I should have moved all-in, but I like to see flops now. I smooth call on an $80 pot.
Flop comes out:    He bets $40 into this... I know it's a continuation bet, but moreso, you should be folding in this spot... I don't regularly do this. I'm thinking maybe I'll catch up on the turn, or I can get him to lay down his hand with an all-in bet on the river. So, I call, with the intention of doing this.
Turn:  $160 pot. He moves all in here. I have about $100 here. So, I take my time, and go back, thinking about the hand. I know that there's some strong pot odds here 2.5:1 on my money... and I know that normally you have to fold... all I can bet is a bluff or semi-bluff! And, I did feel like maybe I still had the best hand. I even called out, aw man you beat me (going all-in) to it! Well, what he does, is he starts talking now... I can't remember exactly what he said, but it just felt kind of funny, you know? He's talking me into folding... maybe he's just bluffing with KQ or 10 J... he has played a lot of hands differently. I call out loud maybe I could draw here... (I usually won't in this spot, as I am a 7:1 dog.) But, something in me tells me I still have the best hand. I call.
I flip up my cards, ,and at the same time he decides to say I'll show one card. A brick comes on the river... he opens an  then the  . I knew it! I knew he didn't have anything! I don't know if it's instinctual or something, but with a jack high flop, you probably should stop betting after the flop if a guy behind you calls. Moreso, an all-in bet on the turn occassionally looks like a bluff... with a decent pair, you might wanna check the turn. If you had a good two pair, you bet for value, no?
I'm sitting there all happy now... I go from $125 to $365. Seriously, I have never taken so much crap from players on that call! I know that I called out loud that I could be drawing here, and I think they think I was some donkey who just calls in this spot with overcards all the time. They really didn't get to see what I was thinking. Pink polo guy is pissed now! (Earlier, he even said I don't get mad at the table.) The solid young asian player next to me tells me he thinks that's a bad call as well. But, if you have the best hand, then why not call? Especially after all the information you have... I was running on instinct at that point... what do you guys think?
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Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:43 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
See, here's the thing. Reads are a matter of accuracy. If your read is accurate enough that you probably make money on average against his possible range of hands, then obviously it's a good call.
Put another way, there is a wicked double standard in Poker. If Daniel Negreanu made that same call on national TV, everyone would be saying what a phenomenal call it was and how well he read the other guy. Conversely, if your average Joe makes that call, the other people say, "what the f*ck are you doing you stupid donkey? How can you call with THAT hand?" So, if you're good, your good calls are actually good. If you're not well-known, your good calls are donktastic.
I think you're a good player, so it's a very good read (although his semi-bluff had a very good chance of success as well).
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:48 am GMT by General Sal
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | See, here's the thing. Reads are a matter of accuracy. If your read is accurate enough that you probably make money on average against his possible range of hands, then obviously it's a good call.
Put another way, there is a wicked double standard in Poker. If Daniel Negreanu made that same call on national TV, everyone would be saying what a phenomenal call it was and how well he read the other guy. Conversely, if your average Joe makes that call, the other people say, "what the f*ck are you doing you stupid donkey? How can you call with THAT hand?" So, if you're good, your good calls are actually good. If you're not well-known, your good calls are donktastic.
I think you're a good player, so it's a very good read (although his semi-bluff had a very good chance of success as well). |
Genius words, there, diamondcutter... you're right. Even moreso, had he actually had a pair, either in the hand or on the flop, then my call would've been completely donktastic. Then, if I'd rivered him, I'm sure that he would've really been steaming. I called, because I could beat a bluff.
Thinking about the hand more... I'm curious now on what I should've done. I normally don't reraise with AK... in this case, I would've been reraising a guy who could have pocket aces. In retrospect, I think he was just putting the pressure back on me. He takes away my ability to make a continuation bet with position. I could re-re-raise to $100 and pot commit myself earlier I guess... I'd have about $75 left, and could move in on him on the flop, representing a bigger hand.
I wish you could've seen this guy... a friend of his came over from another table, and he even said to his friend.... "I'd have more, but that guy right there made a really bad call..."
Personally, I don't think I made a bad call. You feel you have the best hand, then you call, right? This is poker. Live poker. Later on, he was heads up with the young asian guy sitting next to me. Basically, pink polo made some two pair. Asian guy had his straight. River completes a flush. It was the same situation. Pink polo moves in, solid asian guy folds. Pink polo shows his two pair.
I don't make it a habit to call big bets all the time, but if a guy makes big bets way to often, especially when he's ahead, he has to be set straight. If it was a rock I was going against or even someone who hasn't made an all-in for two hours, then yeah, fold AK.
Oh yeah, thanks for the words of encouragement to DC. I'm just now branching into regular play at the 2/5 NL, and so far it's been pretty good.
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:58 am GMT by MrDarling
I think the ability to follows one's instincts separate the good poker players from the great ones.
This is in fact a great call. You didn't hoping to catch a miracle river. You called because you felt you had the best hand. That is what poker all about. call/bet with the best hand, fold the worse hand.
Well played sir.
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:27 am GMT by groton
realy good read there
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:03 am GMT by snoogins47
| MrDarling wrote: | I think the ability to follows one's instincts separate the good poker players from the great ones.
This is in fact a great call. You didn't hoping to catch a miracle river. You called because you felt you had the best hand. That is what poker all about. call/bet with the best hand, fold the worse hand.
Well played sir. |
To be fair, the potential of catching a miracle river is a somewhat significant factor in making this call.
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:59 am GMT by crack
Read a bit of that post but it was quite long. You went with your read and was right. Was it a lucky guess? Depends if he plays a small pp the same. Would we be seeing this post if he turned over a hand that had you beat? Probably not.
If you get it wrong you look dumb and looks like you are married to AK if you get it right you still look dumb because HOWZ CANZ YOOOZ CALLZ WIT DA AK HIGH???
It takes a very specific read to make that call and if you truly truly believe he can only have A high then well played.
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:06 am GMT by tame_deuces
| MrDarling wrote: | I think the ability to follows one's instincts separate the good poker players from the great ones.
This is in fact a great call. You didn't hoping to catch a miracle river. You called because you felt you had the best hand. That is what poker all about. call/bet with the best hand, fold the worse hand.
Well played sir. |
Actually, we should often fold the best hand or bet or call with the worst hand. 
For instance, for villain's shove on the turn in this hand is a good one. And calling with 22 would be pretty horrible. Etc.
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:51 am GMT by ziggy21
| Quote: | | So, I have a friend in town at the Rio, and she hadn't called me back... so around 3pm I go there, just so that I'll already be there for when she does call |
More importantly...did SHE call? 
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:52 am GMT by jimmer
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | If Daniel Negreanu made that same call on national TV, everyone would be saying what a phenomenal call it was and how well he read the other guy. Conversely, if your average Joe makes that call, the other people say, "what the f*ck are you doing you stupid donkey? How can you call with THAT hand?" |
Diamond hit the nail on the head. The fact is; you made the right call. Job done.
He's can't play the way he does and not expect the occational call from someone else.
Nice 1
So what happened over the following few hours? Did he go on tilt? Did the other players look at you differently? Did it change the way the whole table played?
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:53 pm GMT by General Sal
| jimmer wrote: |
So what happened over the following few hours? Did he go on tilt? Did the other players look at you differently? Did it change the way the whole table played? |
Well, I left after another 30 mins... I had a friend in town, and I was really going to just play with the intention of having a short session.
Pink polo did get upset, but I wouldn't say that he played on tilt. He did say that him and I need to get involved in another hand together. I was gonna say that the true setup was when I bluffed and exposed my K9 suited... and I think he wanted to get back at me for that one. It's strange... he didn't get mad if I beat him on the hand if he felt he made the right fold, e.g. when I had aces. But, you show him a worse hand and he got a little hot. He played his hand very well... limp re-raising with AQ. It did put the pressure on me.
I think really they just felt that I was a bonehead for calling in that spot... the entire table. Right when he exposed his hand after the river, I jumped out of my seat, and yelled, "What a call!" They thought I was some kind of donkey for calling like that...
After that though, the table continued loose and aggressive. At least one-all in per round and a half, and people happily moving all-in for $75 preflop. There were many people who did like to get it all in for a coin-flip.
Posted Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:25 pm GMT by Phil14312
I've called with AK high before on a J 9 x x x because I knew the guy was drawing the whole way. I say awesome play...you weren't just calling because it sucks when AK loses, you were calling because of your gut.
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