Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:49 pm GMT by Kemics
okay, i'm playing a tournament style table, started with 6 players. The guy opposit me Mr X, Knocked out three people with all-in so he's got a massive chip lead (stuff like they went all in with pockets Kings, he had aces, some luck and some skill).
So we are down to us three, i've been getting trash all night, keeping myself afloat by buying the pot when i see a bit of weakness but trying to maintain a tight game when ever i can afford it.
he's playing his chip lead perfectly, being very aggressive and pushing us off. I was chatting to the other guy, and we are both getting trash so while we would love to call, we just cant.
I get delt pocket 4's (4  4  ), and call the small blind. The other player folds leaving me and Mr X to see the flop.
flop comes 6 4  k
I finally hit a hand, and its not an obvious one so i'm thinking i could take a fair pot with this. Mr X is bullying with his chip lead whenever he sees a tiny bit of weakness and so i'm thinking i can really use this agianst him
He bets 2 x BB, i call not wanting to give away my hand as he knows ive been playing tight.
turn comes 4 
i cant believe it, i've hit the stone cold nuts with my quads. I decide the best way to play it, is leave it to him to make the first move. I check the turn to show a bit of weakness, i expect him to make a big raise (like he always does) and then re-raise with an all in and hopefully double-up. However he checks me to the river.
river comes 10
i'm thinking of whats a good bet to make now beacuse i dont want to risk check - raising him and him just checking too. So i'm thinking about feigning a bluff and hoping he'll re-raise to get me to fold.
However, before i make my move, out of turn, he says "nah, i'm not feeling it" and folds, turning over pockets (6 6 ), which give him a full house.
I cant belive it, he's got what must look to him to be the best hand on the table and dosn't even wait for me to check or bet. Just chucks his hand away. leaving me to take a measly pot with quads
My friend was watching me play and as adament, i didnt give any tells away.
What did i do wrong, how do he know i had him beat?
i'm still thinking about it and cant come up with an answer
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Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:55 pm GMT by MJJ
He obviously picked up a tell from you, no other explanation
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:19 pm GMT by Skribbles
Mr. X is an absolute moron.
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:29 pm GMT by Kemics
It was probably the worst game i've had in ages, literally, every premium hand i played turned to dust on the flop and every trash hand i folded hit a strait/two pair/the total nuts. So i was probably a little on the tilt and might have been giving away something i usually wouldnt.
though i had won the last 3 games i played previous, so i sort of felt i wasn't going to make it 4 
anyone know a way of working out if you have a tell?
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:43 pm GMT by exit music
Wow this is insane. 66 is only losing to KK, TT and 44. He obviously put you on a fairly big hand and he can be pretty sure that you don't have AK because you didn't raise preflop. I can't see how he would put you on KK or TT because of how the hand was played preflop. It was probably pretty obvious that you were slowplaying something. But I just can't imagine not putting you on something like K10 or even KQ. He's even beating K4.
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:49 pm GMT by supafrey
your left testicle dropped juuuuuust a little. it was a tell.
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:52 pm GMT by Kemics
i'm guessing he just made an amazing read, though i hadn't slow-played any hands that game. Because he was bullying everyone, if i thought i had the hand, i made my move, and bet really aggressivly to make sure i took the pot down. Though the checking wouldn't have appeared unusual and flagged it as a slow play either, beacuse a couple hands when the board had the best 5 cards out of everyone, we all checked for a free-ride to the river.
the way i see it, he's either a genius or an idiot
has anyone got any suggestion on how else i could of played the hand, its wierd, while i won the pot, i think of it as a bad beat 
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:29 pm GMT by snoogins47
Supa's right.
It's much more likely that he's pretty much stupid. There's some folks with brutally bad tells, but you haven't even acted, and there's plenty of hands that would make your testicle drop that he's still ahead of.
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:56 pm GMT by exit music
| Quote: | I finally hit a hand, and its not an obvious one so i'm thinking i could take a fair pot with this. Mr X is bullying with his chip lead whenever he sees a tiny bit of weakness and so i'm thinking i can really use this agianst him
He bets 2 x BB, i call not wanting to give away my hand as he knows ive been playing tight. |
Okay - lemme get this straight, you want to win a big pot, so you check and then call.
You should have bet on the flop. If he has a hand like K/x, he'll at least call. Knowing his hand, it's likely that he would have raised on the flop. If you lead out w/ bottom set and get raised, you can either raise or just call. This might be the time to play "tricky" and just call. If you smooth call his re-raise on the flop, you should probably check on the turn. If he bets, raise. If he checks, I would bet at least half my stack on the river, I might even just push all-in and hope he has a hand like K10 or obviously 66 - something that he has to pay you off with.
If he just calls on the flop, I would probably bet again on the turn. Bet an amount that he probably has to call - like 3/5th the pot, and again bet that amount on the river. If he's willing to call the whole way with top pair, good for us. If he's willing to call the whole way with a set of 6s, good for us.
If he saw your hands shaking and he saw you glance down at your chips as soon as that 2nd 4 rolled off on the turn, and in turn, put you on quads.... well good for him. There's nothing you can do, you just got outplayed.
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:21 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Villain in this hand sure did outplay someone Kemics, but you can rest assured it was pretty much himself. 
Posted Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:59 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Your biggest mistake is letting Mr. X or one of his associates deal.
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:19 am GMT by Ryan231
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Your biggest mistake is letting Mr. X or one of his associates deal. |
I agree, everyone says he picked up some read but it seems like mr.X is a cheater. You say he was playing pretty solid, anyone with any skill wouldn't fold a hand like that out of turn on the end, if they somehow picked up some massive read then they'd probably check the end. Anyone whos half decent would want to see if their read is correct so if they thought they were honestly beat they would check/call on the end to see it down.
Was he sitting near you? I've met people who are very good at checking your hole cards when you don't expect it, if you don't cup them well you might have given your hand away. Maybe you were sitting in front of a window/mirror and when you flipped your cards up he saw them in the window? When I first started playing live I used to mouth my hand because when playing on the net I'd do that when multitabling so could I can process it (not sure why I did it but I did) and someone one night kept saying my hands exactly (like A5s for example), finally he explained that I was telling him what I had, all he had to do was read my lips and he knew my cards..
Either way it sounds like Mr.X is a cheater and I'd review the rest of the night.
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:08 am GMT by Kemics
exit music - what i was hoping to do was to get him to make a big bet (like he basically did every hand, usually about half my stack) then get him pot commited and hopefully call my all in. Probably not the greatest strategy, but it felt right
its intresting that you say that he might have been cheating, we play as part of society and so its fairly relaxed.
I wouldnt say anyone cheats, however at that game. We play dealer shuffles then someone else at the table cuts. When this guy dealt, twice he put the cut back together as it already was (not putting the top to the bottom, if you see what i mean) i pointed it out and he said "ah lets play, dont worry im not a hustler" kinda made a joke out of it. He didnt win the hand beacuse he folded pre-flop, but with hind sight, he might of just been doing that to cover himself after being rumbled.
never thought of it like that...
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:53 am GMT by supafrey
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
yao let me keep these other decks on my lap. i'm not a hustler yo.
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:36 pm GMT by General Sal
Yeah, man, it could've been marked cards. In this case, he's a bad cheat though. He decided to fold a monster like that... that's just too obvious.
Did he have some kind of strange grin when he folded? I'd say he's just messing with your head... kind of like making himself look like a god. What kind of stakes are you playing btw?
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:38 pm GMT by jeffonline
You never folded that’s an obvious read. You need give action to get it.
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:43 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Kemics wrote: | | okay, i'm playing a tournament style table, started with 6 players. The guy opposit me Mr X, Knocked out three people with all-in so he's got a massive chip lead (stuff like they went all in with pockets Kings, he had aces, some luck and some skill). |
Did everyone overlook this little part?
I'd bet dollars to donuts you were cold-decked, and your quads were a mistake.
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:09 pm GMT by snoogins47
| Quote: | | "ah lets play, dont worry im not a hustler" kinda made a joke out of it. |
Nice.
Posted Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:41 pm GMT by Kemics
i cant believe i didnt see it like that. Its a friendly game and so its a big group of mates, while i dont know this guy, i didnt want to jump up and shout "Cheat" and look like a total cock with nothign to prove it. Also, its low stakes so i just wasn't even looking for it. And if he makes a joke and everyone has a laugh, i didnt want to be the guy making a big deal.
Right, i hadn't even concidered this. Another couple times in the game he would shuffle the deck after it had been cut, then deal.
Someone turned over a high card after a pocket and while he called 6's and took the pot, he never showed his hand. I wasn't in the pot and didnt mention anything but it could have been more bullshit.
Now i think about it i reckon this guy is pretty dodgy, either way im going to watch him when i next play, though afterwards, f*ck playing on the table he's on agian.
but, it could all be coincidence but the more i think about it i remember little nagging voices that i should of paid more attention to if you know what i mean, just didnt want to look like a cock if im wrong. How exactly can you catch a cheater?
p.s also even if i think of the pattern of the game its suspect. I would sit roughly on what i bought in on, work up from the 50 to 70/80 chips and then lose it on a cooler hand back to 50. Like, he had the one card higher strait or visa with a flush. Maybe thats just me justifying bad play though but i felt like i was playing better poker and just having my opponents hit lucky streaks
Posted Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:37 am GMT by jimmer
| Kemics wrote: | | I was chatting to the other guy, and we are both getting trash so while we would love to call, we just cant. |
Until you get a good hand right?
So Mr x knows that when you play, you have a good hand??????
Maybe this is the problem.
He bullies you around until he senses strength, then folds. Sounds like you're giving him too much info.
Posted Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:27 am GMT by Kemics
i was only folding all but the preimium when he raised massive pre-flop. When i got the pocket 4's i just limped in to see the flop beacuse he didnt raise.
Posted Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:00 am GMT by jimmer
so when you had a preimium hand, were you raising?
Posted Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:23 pm GMT by Soup_dog
When I first read this story my first thought was that he is cheating. No doubt about it. When you add in his other behaviors, I would say it's a sure thing. I would never play with that SOB again.
Posted Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:10 pm GMT by Ryan231
| jimmer wrote: | | Kemics wrote: | | I was chatting to the other guy, and we are both getting trash so while we would love to call, we just cant. |
Until you get a good hand right?
So Mr x knows that when you play, you have a good hand??????
Maybe this is the problem.
He bullies you around until he senses strength, then folds. Sounds like you're giving him too much info. |
I havent seen too many people read someone for quads then fold the pretty much nuts randomly on the end. If like I said somehow you put someone on a hand like that then I'd like to be sure he had it, reads like those are like once in a lifetime for most people.
People don't realize if someone is wanting to be a cheat or hustler they will obviously sharpen their skills around people who aren't that great, nobody has the balls to start dealing off the bottom of the deck in some back alley club where if you get caught you get f*ck up sort of thing.
Theres really nothing you can do about Mr.X, if hes a cheat then hes a cheat - stop playing with him. Don't call him out unless you are really sure about it, I've seen some bad stuff happen when someone called another person a mechanic.
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