Posted Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:25 am GMT by Eusebio
I figured out that AK and AQ, suited and offsuit, cost me pretty much money.
8-10 Handed game, I usually play NL200 and a raise to 10 can be considered as limping, since you will have at least 3 but often up to 5 callers.
Ok, so lets say I get AKs in middleposition
2 or 3 limpers before me and I raise it up to 10-15.
lets say I get lucky and have only 2 callers...
the flop comes 2 7 T rainbow and I fire another bullet, lets say a healthy 30 EUR bet in a pot of 45
One guy calls...
You see the dilemma?
If you raise it preflop, without getting rid of some players my AK isnt worth the plastic, its printed on.
Somebody will almost definitly call you all the way down to the river and since you only hit the flop 1 out of 3 times, I am losing my faith in AK (playing it that way)...
It doesnt matter how I bet, I am up against a bunch of players... if i just call also...
So isnt it better to play AK slow, because the chances that I lose against 3+ players are so high?
I discovered one thing that scares them away:
A Re-Raise..
So I thought about reraising all the time with AK, and sometimes with AQ. Lets say one guy bets 15, then I would reraise to 40-50... thats the only thing that drives them away... but thats a very pricey way to play, considering a c/bet of at least 60 70... but I guess I could increase my chances... and against the hands people play in that game (i am definitly sure that they would even call the reraise with KJ, QT, etc)my Ak looks pretty good (but just against 1 player not 5)
What do you think?
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Posted Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:52 am GMT by jimmer
Each and every table is different.
Sometimes i raise 2xbb and everyone folds, sometimes i raise 5xbb and get 4 callers.
You need to spend time at your table learning the optimum amount to bet. It will vary from hour to hour.
Once you know this, you can adjust your game to get the right amount of callers for the hand you want to play. If you're in early position with AK, you're gonna have to raise more than if you're on the button with no limpers. (as you only have the sb and bb to beat).
As for all your other questions and theories, i suggest you look on the poker calculator on this site. put in AK, then try a few various hands (with one other player only). then try it with a few other players. Notice how you're chance of winning decreases with more players?????
Thats why you really need to limit the field with a good hand, and get as many callers as you can with a poor one.
Posted Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:54 am GMT by snoogins47
There is way too much fuzzy-misleading stuff in this post.
| Quote: | the flop comes 2 7 T rainbow and I fire another bullet, lets say a healthy 30 EUR bet in a pot of 45
One guy calls...
You see the dilemma? |
No. I don't.
A)You still may have the best hand
B)You still may have 6 outs, or other ways to win the pot
C)They do not always hit the flop
D)You don't miss every flop
E)You don't get a caller on every flop
My biggest question, I think, is why do you seem to only be concerned with making sure everybody in the world folds, when you hold AK? Drawing conclusions based on an extremely limited number of observations is never a good thing.
| Quote: | | It doesnt matter how I bet, I am up against a bunch of players. |
I do not know the game you play in. But I would bet my house that this is not the case. And if it's even close, you should probably be making absolutely sickening amounts of money from them.
quote'"Jimmer"Notice how you're chance of winning decreases with more players????? /quote
I want to be careful with this. This is true, but it absolutely does not mean that having more opponents = worse for you. Give yourself AA and try this. Your winning chances will go down, but in many cases your real money equity will barely change... in fact given 'reasonable' starting hands your results will often go up, getting an additional player or two in the pot, even though your winning chances decrease. This is ignoring the fact that much of the time, despite all the popular "I never win with AA" whines, you're going to be in very good shape to have opponents put in a lot of money while behind AFTER the flop quite often.
However, AK does tend to be sensitive to the # of players that are likely to end up involved later, way moreso than the big pairs, etc.
| Quote: | | Thats why you really need to limit the field with a good hand, and get as many callers as you can with a poor one. |
This is, at best, a very misleading rule to live by. In many cases, it is entirely wrong.
Posted Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:18 am GMT by jimmer
Nice post snoogins47. Well thought out and explained.
Posted Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:20 am GMT by TheSalche
I'd post something here, but snoog nailed it.
Why the hell do i still see you at the 50NL tables btw?
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