Rivered again Poker Stars .....the river always Kills Me |
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Posted Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:08 pm GMT by Boneshocka
PokerStars Game #8933344039: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/03/16 - 16:53:30 (ET)
Table 'Aspasia II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Moordaap ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 2: NorthernHawk ($53.35 in chips)
Seat 3: caminito ($50.95 in chips)
Seat 4: NoMercy1981 ($19.70 in chips)
Seat 5: EDDIEDIAMOND ($20.50 in chips)
Seat 6: wutangmofo ($57.50 in chips)
caminito: posts small blind $0.25
NoMercy1981: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoMercy1981  
EDDIEDIAMOND: calls $0.50
wutangmofo: folds
Moordaap: folds
NorthernHawk: raises $1 to $1.50
caminito: calls $1.25
NoMercy1981: calls $1
EDDIEDIAMOND: folds
*** FLOP ***   
caminito: bets $2.50
NoMercy1981: calls $2.50
NorthernHawk: raises $5.50 to $8
caminito: raises $11 to $19
NoMercy1981: calls $15.70 and is all-in
NorthernHawk: raises $32.85 to $51.85 and is all-in
caminito: calls $30.45 and is all-in
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
caminito: shows   (a full house, Sevens full of Kings)
NorthernHawk: mucks hand
caminito collected $62.45 from side pot
NoMercy1981: mucks hand
caminito collected $56.65 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $122.10 Main pot $56.65. Side pot $62.45. | Rake $3
Board
Seat 1: Moordaap folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: NorthernHawk (button) mucked  
Seat 3: caminito (small blind) showed and won ($119.10) with a full house, Sevens full of Kings
Seat 4: NoMercy1981 (big blind) mucked
Seat 5: EDDIEDIAMOND folded before Flop
Seat 6: wutangmofo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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Posted Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:41 pm GMT by supafrey
You were losing on the flop.
Posted Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:12 pm GMT by MrDarling
if you put the money in when you are behind, you are not allowed to complain if you catch and then lose
Posted Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:09 pm GMT by snoogins47
only at riverstars
Posted Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:00 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Quote: | EDDIEDIAMOND: calls $0.50
wutangmofo: folds
Moordaap: folds
NorthernHawk: raises $1 to $1.50
caminito: calls $1.25
NoMercy1981: calls $1
EDDIEDIAMOND: folds |
I wonder what he had.
Posted Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:23 pm GMT by snoogins47
| tame_deuces wrote: | | Quote: | EDDIEDIAMOND: calls $0.50
wutangmofo: folds
Moordaap: folds
NorthernHawk: raises $1 to $1.50
caminito: calls $1.25
NoMercy1981: calls $1
EDDIEDIAMOND: folds |
I wonder what he had. |
99, and with all that action on pokerstars, some donkey with Ace-rag is going to stick around and hit on him.
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:08 am GMT by Boneshocka
How Bout this one i Played the hand correctly same thing it s just incredible how there is so much action on cash games
PokerStars Game #8942860565: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/03/17 - 04:02:38 (ET)
Table 'Dziban II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: SFSiegen ($5.70 in chips)
Seat 2: McConnico ($28.30 in chips)
Seat 3: mcha222764 ($9.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Evil97 ($73.90 in chips)
Seat 5: NoMercy1981 ($8.15 in chips)
Seat 6: nucks31 ($4.65 in chips)
McConnico: posts small blind $0.10
mcha222764: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoMercy1981 
Evil97: folds
NoMercy1981: raises $1 to $1.25
nucks31: folds
SFSiegen: folds
McConnico: raises $2.25 to $3.50
mcha222764: folds
NoMercy1981: calls $2.25
*** FLOP ***   
McConnico: bets $4.75
NoMercy1981: calls $4.65 and is all-in
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
McConnico: shows   (a full house, Jacks full of Sixes)
NoMercy1981: shows (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
McConnico collected $15.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $16.55 | Rake $0.80
Board
Seat 1: SFSiegen (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: McConnico (small blind) showed and won ($15.75) with a full house, Jacks full of Sixes
Seat 3: mcha222764 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Evil97 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: NoMercy1981 showed and lost with two pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 6: nucks31 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:45 am GMT by raisebot
write stars a letter
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:47 am GMT by Geno
| Boneshocka wrote: | | How Bout this one i Played the hand correctly... |
Where is the pre-flop re-raise? You have the second best hand, you've raised it and someone has played back at you, what are you calling for? By calling you can easily make your hand look like 99/TT in which case when the flop is all lower than a J, your opponent probably has every right to think he is in good shape.
Perhaps more importantly - why are you sitting with less than a third of the table max buy-in at the start of the hand?
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:13 am GMT by MrDarling
I don't necessary mind just smooth calling with K's here since it is already HU. And it did work, you got to put all your money in with the best hand.
Problem his, because of your small stack, his play was correct as well.
Its happens. As long as you play within your BR, losing a stack or 2 is not such a big deal.
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:20 pm GMT by Boneshocka
| Geno wrote: | | Boneshocka wrote: | | How Bout this one i Played the hand correctly... |
Where is the pre-flop re-raise? You have the second best hand, you've raised it and someone has played back at you, what are you calling for? By calling you can easily make your hand look like 99/TT in which case when the flop is all lower than a J, your opponent probably has every right to think he is in good shape.
Perhaps more importantly - why are you sitting with less than a third of the table max buy-in at the start of the hand? |
to be totally honest he woulda still called my all in.....98.5% of the players in riverstars would. so i actually wanted him to bet the flop and i go with all my money in with the best hand.....it happened i lose like almost every good hand i get in riverstars
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:41 pm GMT by Casey ATB
I know that I'm relatively new to this forum, compared to many of you who have been members for a long time, but I often wonder about the references (complaints, actually) to 'River Stars' and 'Joker Stars.' Do you not get beat on the 'Turn' or 'River' on other sites? If you don't, please publish the names of those sites, as I haven't been able to find them.
Posted Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:55 pm GMT by Ryan_j37
| Boneshocka wrote: | | Geno wrote: | | Boneshocka wrote: | | How Bout this one i Played the hand correctly... |
Where is the pre-flop re-raise? You have the second best hand, you've raised it and someone has played back at you, what are you calling for? By calling you can easily make your hand look like 99/TT in which case when the flop is all lower than a J, your opponent probably has every right to think he is in good shape.
Perhaps more importantly - why are you sitting with less than a third of the table max buy-in at the start of the hand? |
to be totally honest he woulda still called my all in.....98.5% of the players in riverstars would. so i actually wanted him to bet the flop and i go with all my money in with the best hand.....it happened i lose like almost every good hand i get in riverstars |
'
It has nothing to do with the room your are playing on.
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:02 am GMT by Moon_Child
| Casey ATB wrote: | | I know that I'm relatively new to this forum, compared to many of you who have been members for a long time, but I often wonder about the references (complaints, actually) to 'River Stars' and 'Joker Stars.' Do you not get beat on the 'Turn' or 'River' on other sites? If you don't, please publish the names of those sites, as I haven't been able to find them. |
actually, i would like to say pokerstars is a pretty good site overall, but the way the cards fall is just unbelievable, i have never cashed out any winnings from that site...
time and time, i would drop my bankroll too low to continue to play on pokerstars
i play on other sites and i do quite well, but if i decided to try stars, it just doesn't work.
they hate me...
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:15 am GMT by Geno
| Moon_Child wrote: |
actually, i would like to say pokerstars is a pretty good site overall, but the way the cards fall is just unbelievable, i have never cashed out any winnings from that site...
time and time, i would drop my bankroll too low to continue to play on pokerstars |
Please stop or my head will explode.
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:46 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
You definately need to email them and ask them to turn your difficulty rating down.
They might not, but most times when someone knows about the difficulty rating they will turn it down to keep them quiet.
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:26 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
i send a bit of joking bit serious email to stars once about my all ins,
only serious part was i wanted to see stats of my all ins, my hands where i had AA or KK, and my situatios pair vs. overcards
i got all those stats and this is part of mail that basicly says it all and i do agree with it
"While it can often seem that you see fewer playable hands or more outdraws
than is expected, the truth is that you do not. What often happens is a
situation similar to this:
Player A has AA and player B has TJs. At the river, player A bets and
player B folds. You never get to see what player B was chasing. However,
if player B suddenly hits a straight/flush/two pair at the river, then you
will see both hands turned up at which point everybody groans about the bad
beat.
The first scenario happens four times vs one time for the second scenario
but because you never get to see the hands in scenario A, scenario B looks
to happen more often than it does."
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:31 am GMT by Geno
| Jernej Zorec wrote: |
"While it can often seem that you see fewer playable hands or more outdraws
than is expected, the truth is that you do not. What often happens is a
situation similar to this:
Player A has AA and player B has TJs. At the river, player A bets and
player B folds. You never get to see what player B was chasing. However,
if player B suddenly hits a straight/flush/two pair at the river, then you
will see both hands turned up at which point everybody groans about the bad
beat.
The first scenario happens four times vs one time for the second scenario
but because you never get to see the hands in scenario A, scenario B looks
to happen more often than it does." |
And they are totally right. Compound that with the number of hands you can see per hour online vs number of hands you can see per hour at a B&M casino and it pretty much 100% debunks any "omg it's rigged" theories!
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:45 am GMT by supafrey
was geno's response an admonishment for hiding the strength of the kk hand?
deception is bad?
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:16 am GMT by jimmer
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | | You definately need to email them and ask them to turn your difficulty rating down. |
or next time you play, just explain to the rest of the table what you've just told us. I'm sure they'd understand.
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:54 pm GMT by exit music
LOL @ AQs
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:58 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
| supafrey wrote: | was geno's response an admonishment for hiding the strength of the kk hand?
deception is bad? |
:sigh: 
Posted Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:16 pm GMT by TheSalche
Hi I'm a person who thinks that online poker is rigged, therefore I will keep playing online poker because I'm an idiot.
Seriously, how dumb are people? If you really think its rigged then stop playing. Thats like gambling when you know you're losing money, but you're not even having fun ...
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:55 am GMT by supafrey
| wEbMaStEr wrote: | | supafrey wrote: | was geno's response an admonishment for hiding the strength of the kk hand?
deception is bad? |
:sigh: |
| Geno wrote: | | Where is the pre-flop re-raise? You have the second best hand, you've raised it and someone has played back at you, what are you calling for? |
What the hell are you even sighing anymore, webby?
Please don't pull my one-liner condescension stuff if you don't have the respect/obvious intelligence to not confuse people that are unsure whether you "get" what is being talked about.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:26 am GMT by MasterShake
I got rivered a bunch of times at Foxwoods last week end left down about $50. I asked for my money back, but they wouldn't give it to me. Live poker is rigged.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:37 am GMT by MrDarling
I don't get rivered often, but a lot of the times I get the second nuts and someone else have the Nuts. Which is a clear way of the site to generate more rake.
For example, last night I had A4s UTG. I raised and one fish call. Flop comes 4TT rainbow. I push and the fish call with 9Ts . And then turns Quads. How in hell can they play like that? I suspect the site includes bots that knows what cards will be coming.
Also, often when I push people call with crap like T's or J's just because they know I'll miss with my A2o or KTs .. Rigged!
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:55 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
| supafrey wrote: |
What the hell are you even sighing anymore, webby?
Please don't pull my one-liner condescension stuff if you don't have the respect/obvious intelligence to not confuse people that are unsure whether you "get" what is being talked about. |
Is this even English?
Yes, sure, disguising the strength of your hand is fine, but when you get turned over by doing so you can't really complain.
Do you:
a: Strongly agree
b: Agree
c: Disagree
d: Strongly disagree
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:31 am GMT by supafrey
not everyone understands the value of just calling a raise/reraise with kk/aa and as such ask questions such as this one. instead of answering that question, giving someone the not necessarily good / often bad advice of 4 betting with kk is silly.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:14 pm GMT by khaosanroad
| supafrey wrote: | | not everyone understands the value of just calling a raise/reraise with kk/aa and as such ask questions such as this one. instead of answering that question, giving someone the not necessarily good / often bad advice of 4 betting with kk is silly. |
This is too true. Everyone keeps saying Aggression Agression Agression!!!!!! I got tired of winning small pots with my big hands. So I started limping and calling with my big hands and let people bet into me. It's more profitable.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:32 pm GMT by Geno
| supafrey wrote: | | blah blah...of 4 betting with kk is silly. |
You know this is NL right?
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:35 pm GMT by kingetje
| khaosanroad wrote: |
This is too true. Everyone keeps saying Aggression Agression Agression!!!!!! I got tired of winning small pots with my big hands. So I started limping and calling with my big hands and let people bet into me. It's more profitable. |
huh? aggression is what wins you the big pots.... at least in my experience..
jam that set and double up. if not, you probably wouldntve won an extra nickle anyway
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:39 pm GMT by khaosanroad
| Geno wrote: | | supafrey wrote: | | blah blah...of 4 betting with kk is silly. |
You know this is NL right? |
It still applies to NL.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:44 pm GMT by MrDarling
Come on guys, you know there is no one right way to play a hand.
I do agree that sometimes it is ok to just call a raise with A's or K's. Especially if you are SURE it will HU. Depends on reads though, if you know villain will call AI after 3 betting, then you might as well pop it PF.
For this to be profitable you should be good enough to fold those hands PF if it is obvious you are drawing dead post flop.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:45 pm GMT by khaosanroad
| kingetje wrote: | | khaosanroad wrote: |
This is too true. Everyone keeps saying Aggression Agression Agression!!!!!! I got tired of winning small pots with my big hands. So I started limping and calling with my big hands and let people bet into me. It's more profitable. |
huh? aggression is what wins you the big pots.... at least in my experience..
jam that set and double up. if not, you probably wouldntve won an extra nickle anyway |
I'm talking about hands like AA, KK, and AK that only give you 1 pair. Of course I'm getting aggressive with a set or 2 pair.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:52 pm GMT by Geno
| khaosanroad wrote: | | Geno wrote: | | supafrey wrote: | | blah blah...of 4 betting with kk is silly. |
You know this is NL right? |
It still applies to NL. |
No shit, but not even close to the same extent.
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:54 pm GMT by finalhonor
Can't we all just get along?
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:34 pm GMT by supafrey
| Geno wrote: | | khaosanroad wrote: | | Geno wrote: | | supafrey wrote: | | blah blah...of 4 betting with kk is silly. |
You know this is NL right? |
It still applies to NL. |
No shit, but not even close to the same extent. |
4 betting pre with KK in fl is like... standard.
4 better pre with KK in NL is like.. pretty weak.
Posted Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:15 am GMT by Boneshocka
ill tell you what i would almost never have that problem in poker room or hollywood poker but know i cant play at those sites......it just seems incrdible how aa kk qq get cracked so so easily especially in ring games.... oh yeah no doubt in my mind....i play tourneys and i usually go deep or make the money....hands hold up.....ring games different story 
Posted Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:21 am GMT by snoogins47
Jesus Christ.
Here's a tip kiddies: Supa questioning something that somebody said doesn't necessarily have to be personal, or merely intended to incite.
Even if it was merely intended to incite, that doesn't mean his point isn't valid.
| Geno wrote: | | Boneshocka wrote: | | How Bout this one i Played the hand correctly... |
"Where is the pre-flop re-raise? You have the second best hand, you've raised it and someone has played back at you, what are you calling for? By calling you can easily make your hand look like 99/TT in which case when the flop is all lower than a J, your opponent probably has every right to think he is in good shape. " |
This comes off as absolutely stupid, and it doesn't take a silly bald boorish Canadian to see it. It shouldn't take one to say it, either.
| Quote: | Is this even English?
Yes, sure, disguising the strength of your hand is fine, but when you get turned over by doing so you can't really complain.
Do you:
a: Strongly agree
b: Agree
c: Disagree
d: Strongly disagree |
Check this out. Geno posted his comment in response to the notion that the KK hand was 'played correctly.' That may imply something or other about who 'has the right to complain' (though there's all sorts of equivocation about that all over every forum, THP included) but that doesn't change the fact that your clever little 'test question' response is irrelevant.
Supa is saying that Geno's questioning of the 'I played correctly' statement is, at best, misleading. It's also worded extremely condescendingly. And overall comes off as stupid: he's in essence trying to argue AGAINST flat-calling with KK here, by giving 'evidence' in the form of SITUATIONS WHICH WOULD MAKE FLAT CALLING WITH KK VASTLY SUPERIOR, but since in this case he sucked out in this awesome situations... well you see how this goes.
"If you would've re-raised with KK he would've folded his JJ, which is what you want because he happened to flop a set in this specific hand right here" is just as idiotic as "Don't worry about pushing earlier, since he would've called and sucked out anyway," and every other results oriented, confusing piece of garbage 'advice' that gets thrown around constantly and even litters this thread; it's just that this tidbit manifested itself in a slightly different way.
In the end, Supa was questioning what seemed to be an 'opinion' that he regarded as either 'wrong,' or 'needing more backing.' Basically, he's saying the question of whether or not to re-raise KK there is one that at least merits more discussion, and to give that advice, unqualified, just isn't kosher. To fire back with fancy ways of saying "I'm right lol" and "Shut up, Supa" is unquestionably more damaging to the level of discourse on this forum than Supa being an a**hole has ever been.
And | Geno wrote: | | You know this is NL right? |
Is no better than "I'm right lol." It takes the notion "4betting with KK is unequivocally right in NL" as fact, and shoves it in Supa's face via the loaded question "Are you ignorant of proper NL strategy, or are you just too stupid to notice that the hand in question is NL?" I don't care who you are, or who you're talking to, that's just bullheaded nonsense, even if you happen to be right (which, for the record, is far from an open and shut case)
Muchos bonus points for using the "Silly" part of Supa's quote out of context to make your garbage retort even easier.
Posted Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:13 am GMT by tame_deuces
Actually we could re-raise all we wanted preflop in this hand, we only have like 40BBs anyway so nobody is folding anything anywhere.
But the reasoning for doing so is obv not how easy it can be to get sucked out if we don't do it.
Apart from that, not 4-betting AA,KK preflop can put one in madly profitable situations, and Supa's point is a good one.
Posted Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:37 pm GMT by robvleugel88
Atleast in your first example the call was just stupid! Why did you go all in? There wasnt too much in the pot, and since all others were raising you shouldve known they had something good. With only a 1 on 3 change of hitting a flush on turn/river I wouldve folded. 4-flushes aren't arent as good as they look! You did made your flush on the turn, just like one of the guys made his/her full house on the river. You don't have any reason to complain.
Posted Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:00 am GMT by Boneshocka
GETTING TIRED OF STARS GOD I MISS POKERROOM....this is in tourney
PokerStars Game #9027565975: Tournament #45891391, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/03/22 - 03:56:26 (ET)
Table '45891391 5' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: lrgmammaries (2746 in chips)
Seat 2: realdeal68 (945 in chips)
Seat 3: dineroparame (5195 in chips)
Seat 4: Veritas327 (2110 in chips)
Seat 5: anticon (6935 in chips)
Seat 6: naramig (5695 in chips)
Seat 7: NoMercy1981 (3193 in chips)
Seat 8: Str8Flushin3 (975 in chips)
Seat 9: filmstudent (13650 in chips)
filmstudent: posts small blind 50
lrgmammaries: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NoMercy1981
realdeal68: folds
dineroparame: folds
Veritas327: calls 100
anticon: folds
naramig: folds
NoMercy1981: raises 500 to 600
Str8Flushin3: raises 375 to 975 and is all-in
filmstudent: folds
lrgmammaries: folds
Veritas327: folds
NoMercy1981: calls 375
*** FLOP *** 
Str8Flushin3 said, "nh"
Str8Flushin3 said, "gg"
*** TURN ***
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NoMercy1981: shows (three of a kind, Kings)
Str8Flushin3: shows  (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Str8Flushin3 said, "wow"
Str8Flushin3 collected 2200 from pot
Str8Flushin3 said, "thats sick"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2200 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 1: lrgmammaries (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: realdeal68 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: dineroparame folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Veritas327 folded before Flop
Seat 5: anticon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: naramig folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: NoMercy1981 showed and lost with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 8: Str8Flushin3 (button) showed and won (2200) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 9: filmstudent (small blind) folded before Flop
Posted Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:03 am GMT by MrDarling
yeah, thats sick. That NEVER happens in real poker.
Something is defiantly wrong with your doom setting switch. But you know, bad mouthing stars on forums might cause that. Rumors says they have search bots that search through out the net, and anyone that say anything wrong get the doom switch.
Seriously though - Thats poker. Thats gambling . When you are 80% to win it does mean that you will lose 20% of the times. thats 1 out of 5 times that you will lose in this situation.
Its not that rare.
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