Posted Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:54 pm GMT by Phil14312
Visited Las Vegas from Wednesday night to Saturday morning this past week. I went with my girlfriend, Celeste, and our good friend and my apartment-mate Andy. Andy is the best NL Holdem player I know and has taught me a ton about the game. When he is playing his A game, he absolutely crushes most NL games. I mean crushes.
Andy gets off work at 6:30 Wednesday night and we pick up Celeste and get out of LA, arriving at the Flamingo around 11:30 PM. Andy and I are pumped to play, so he puts our name on the Flamingo’s NL list while we are waiting to check-in. Of course, they ran out of the standard rooms, had to put us up in the Spa suite for one night. When Goldberg (the goalie from mighty ducks was checking us in) asked if this was alright, I look at Andy and Celeste, and Andy, without hesitation says, well we were looking for two queen beds, this is an inconvenience, can we get some sort of food comp or something out of it. Goldberg immediately gives us $15 extra comp (room came with $50 in food credit). Nice.
Room is really nice. The only other suite I’ve stayed in was at Mandalay Bay, and this one was better. 2 bathrooms, full-size living room with couch, dining room area, bar area and master bedroom with spa-tub. We got a roll-away free for Andy and Celeste and I planned to crash in the master bedroom.
Celeste was tired (she is a teacher, its her spring break, but she is used to going to sleep by 10 PM and waking up by 6) and crashes, Andy and I go downstairs. List hasn’t moved, we are still about 5-6 back since we put our names on the list. We walk over to Harrahs poker room and get seated immediately at different 1/2 NL 100-300 holdem game. Get seated to the right of a weak/tight player from New York and two Swedish guys, one who ended up being the only tricky/good player at the table.
Table played extremely weak tight, lots of limping and checking. No real good players it seems and only the guy to my left has anything more than $400 (he’s got about $600). I fold for an orbit, get AJo in the SB, have about 4 limpers to me, I don’t really like raising here and getting called and ending up with a big pot OOP. I call, BB checks, Flop is:
Ac 5h 3s
I lead out for $10 into a roughly $12 pot. All fold to Swedish guy who makes it $15 more. Uhhh….no idea where I am. I call. Turn is Q. I check he bets $40, I fold.
I fold for two or three orbits, not playing a hand outside the blinds. I get Th4h in the CO and two of the terrible players limped, I make it $15 to go, hoping to pick up the blinds and limpers, and if not, probably win it with a bet on the flop. Button cold-calls, and limpers call, making it 4 to the flop for $60. Flop:
4s 8c 7s
Hmm…..not exactly the best flop, but I make a bet of $35, button immediately pushes all-in, and I fold.
Very next hand I pick up AA and raise to $15 after 1 limper. We go 3-way to the flop of:
Td 9d 3c
Limpers check I bet $30, 1 limper folds, Swedish guy from previous hand takes a little while and calls, it looked like a 9 or a weak draw to me.
Turn: 7c
He checks and I bet $60. He thinks and calls. OK I’m not thrilled but my hand is still probably good.
River: Jh
He checks I check, he says 7 and I show my AA and win the pot. He could have picked up this pot with a big bet on the river for sure.
Couple orbits later I pick up 6c7c in the CO and after 4 limpers, I raise to $20 hoping to either take this pot down, or at least have position on a bunch of players where I know exactly where I am at post-flop. Well, I get 3 callers and the flop is:
As Kc 5c
Checks to me, I bet $50 on my semi-bluff. 1st limper c/r all-in for $50 more, bad Swedish guy folds and I call. Turn is the 8c, River: Kh. He turns over Kx and I take the pot.
Play was pretty weak-tight/bad like besides the 1 Swedish player, I knew basically exactly where I was on every hand. I stole a couple pots raising preflop and making continuation pots. 1 hand I had where I made a big bluff: I have 89o in the SB, 6 limpers, I complete, BB checks. Flop:
Kc Qh 4s
Everyone checks to bad Swedish guy who bets $10 in such a way that I thought he was weak, he had been telegraphing some of his bluffs all night. I raise to $35, BB calls (he was a calling station, had built up a big stack hitting draws, but was not completely out of line), bad Swedish player says something like, “guess my queen isn’t good,” and calls. At this point, I think that the BB is on a flush draw and the bad Swedish guy will fold if he doesn’t hit two-pair or trip up. Turn brings a complete blank. I bet $75 and both fold. BB says he was open-ended. Whew.
It was starting to get late, like 3:30 AM or so when good LAG Swedish guy puts up a live straddle UTG. Bad Swedish guy to his left calls, bad weak/tight to my right calls, I’m next with AdJs and decide I don’t want to raise and make a huge pot with a marginal hand so I call. 1 more caller, and the straddler checks. Flop:
Kh Jh 9s
Checks to me, I’m pretty sure no one has a king, although there is still one player to act. I decide to check and see what the turn brings. Turn: 5h
UTG LAG bets $20 into the pot. At this point it was hard to put him on a hand, as I thought he would lead out with a King. The first hand that popped into my head was something like A 5 or A 9 something like that. I decide to call and see what he does on the river. River brings the 9 I’m not really sure where I’m at when he bets $35 on the river. I think about it, decide his range may even include some weaker jacks, plus I really want to see his hand. I call. He turns over 95 for the turned two-pair and rivered boat. Ah well. I play a few more hands and call it a night.
Final: +$150
Coming attractions:
Donking up 2/4 while tipsy.
15/30 at the Bellagio.
15/30 shorthanded in the wee hours of the morning at the Venetian.
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Posted Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:34 pm GMT by Bonzer
 Now that dawg will hunt. This is a great forum for Las Vegas B&M. There is another Las Vegas forum but it sux. Got some dude named LasVegasMichael who shill for bad rooms. This a good board. 
Posted Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:41 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I look forward to the rest of the story.
What limits does Andy usually play if you don't mind my asking?
Posted Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:55 am GMT by supafrey
| Quote: | AJo in the SB, have about 4 limpers to me, I don’t really like raising here and getting called and ending up with a big pot OOP. I call, BB checks, Flop is:
Ac 5h 3s
I lead out for $10 into a roughly $12 pot. All fold to Swedish guy who makes it $15 more. Uhhh….no idea where I am. I call. Turn is Q. I check he bets $40, I fold. |
This hand is weird. I rarely play it like this.
Also, your last hand was played very, very poorly.
You seem to have a very good game (and a better head on your shoulders than most of thp) as is noted by your posting style. Why not play a bit more aggressively in pots you "know" you could be betting and winning in, instead of checking for further streets?
Posted Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:58 am GMT by Dave B
How come every time I try to play limit at the Venetian they only have 3/6 or 4/8 going? I found a 6/12 game there once, but never anything bigger. Everyone tells me they always have 8/16 or better, so I dont doubt them, it just isnt what I find there.
Posted Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:24 am GMT by Bonzer
| Dave B wrote: | | How come every time I try to play limit at the Venetian they only have 3/6 or 4/8 going? I found a 6/12 game there once, but never anything bigger. Everyone tells me they always have 8/16 or better, so I dont doubt them, it just isnt what I find there. |
VENITIAN does not have 8/16 going much. They lowered the RAKE to $1 but so far that has not helped. Only players that show up to play are local rocks from Mirage and Bellagio and they end up playing 4/8 most of the time. Weekend nights ususally have one game goin. Having the 2/4 game is what kills the higher limits. That needs to go. Move that kiddie table to ti (Treasure Island) and it will improve the V.
Posted Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:10 am GMT by crack
I was going to comment on the hands but didnt feel it was right, anyway pretty much what supa said.
Hope you had a good time.
Posted Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:38 pm GMT by Phil14312
I will admit that cash game NL Holdem is by far my weakest game. I also haven't played it in about 4 months since before this trip, so I was playing basically "not to lose," which while isn't ideal, is how I was playing. How do you play the AJ hand if you don't mind me asking?
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:22 pm GMT by Phil14312
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | I look forward to the rest of the story.
What limits does Andy usually play if you don't mind my asking? |
Andy usually plays the $200 NL games in LA w/ 3/5 blinds. He probably could play higher, but doesn't have a real bankroll.
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:23 pm GMT by Phil14312
| Dave B wrote: | | How come every time I try to play limit at the Venetian they only have 3/6 or 4/8 going? I found a 6/12 game there once, but never anything bigger. Everyone tells me they always have 8/16 or better, so I dont doubt them, it just isnt what I find there. |
The Venetian just started a big promotion to try and get their 8/16, 15/30, and 30/60 games going. Rake for the 8 and 15 games is a straight dollar. 30/60 has a $2 time charge. The dealer I talked to said the night I played (friday) was the first night they got a 15 and 30 game going in a long time.
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:24 pm GMT by Phil14312
Sleep until about 10:00 AM, get woken up by Andy. He came back to the room with me and then went downstairs and played for another 6 hours at the Flamingo. We all go to the Flamingo’s pools (they are pretty nice, but the water slide wasn’t working damnit) and saw the cool birds. Hard to find three chairs in the sun together. We eat breakfast at the café and hang out in the sun for about 3 hours or so. Come back to the room. Decide to go out drinking and carousing, we head to the forum shops and Fat Tuesday’s. We buy those big, goofy souvenir drinks. I get hurricane (rum and punch), Celeste gets a mango + strawberry + rum twist thing, Andy gets a mudslide.
We walk around Caesar’s, get bored and head off to the Flamingo room, they have only one 1/2 NL table going, but 3 open seats at 2/4. Celeste doesn’t really play higher than 4/8 so this is her usually table, I’m goofing around, and Andy has played at a 2/4 table for like 1 hour of his entire poker career. First hand I don’t have to post, Celeste folds UTG, I raise with TT, get called in 1 spot, Andy calls in the SB, BB calls. Flop:
8:diamond 8 5
I bet, only Andy calls. I know he’s floating me with garbage, somehow, I basically know it. His best hand right now is a 5 or a flush draw.
Turn: 2
Andy bets out. WTF does he have? I call, not really feeling like getting 3-bet here.
River: 2
Doesn’t really change anything so I call. Or does it? It does when Andy turns over 27o for the runner-runner trips. Pokerstove says I was 96% to win. He said that he just wanted to turn over 27o against me and that giving me the beat was worth any money to lose.
I donk around, Andy gets moved to the NL game, I move there in a little up about $15. Sit down, notice the difference between a 2/4 table and a 1/2 NL table immediately, everyone is quiet and serious, its like the WSOP in there.
I make a couple raises and take down pots on the flop. I also raise once or twice and give up on the flop. One interesting hand, I open-limp with 22, 1 caller and a raise to 15, I guy cold-calls, I call, limper calls. Flop is the beautiful:
K 9 2 rainbow. I check, limper checks, preflop raiser bets $30, I call, all others fold. Turn:
A
I check he checks. I bet 60 on a blank river and he folds KQ faceup. Should I have raised on the flop?
I have 44 in another hand against a preflop raise and 2 callers. Turn is 2 3 7, checks around. Turn is a 5 and I bet and take down the pot.
Interesting hand: I have 79o on the button, 4 limpers to me, I limp, blinds check. Flop:
Q K 3
Checks to me I check.
Turn:
Q Checks to guy with big stack on my right. He checks, I bet $15. Folds around to big stack, he raises to $35, I know he has some sort of draw, because he wouldn’t check a King or Queen twice here. I re-raise to $90, he folds, says he had a draw.
Final: +200
We all leave and go get some dinner, I forget where so it must not have been impressive. We go back to the room, Andy leaves to go play poker. I take a nap. Wake up and try and find him, check Flamingo, Bally’s, Harrahs, Caesar’s, and finally stop at the Bellagio, decide I’m going to try 15/30. Note: The highest I’ve ever played has been 8/16 at the Bellagio around Christmas time.
It takes me a while to get my seat. I sit down, table is pretty average, a couple weakspots and some tight players. After about two orbits I raise 77 UTG, old man who plays a lot of pots cold-calls in the CO, BB calls. Flop:
A 5 6, I bet, old-man calls, BB folds.
Turn:
8
I check and call and check and fold a blank river.
I was playing rather tight, got A K and raise, we go 5 to the flop.
J 5 3 Checks to a girl-limper who bets, probably with something like QJ or JT. I raise next in. Turn is a king she checks and calls the turn and river. She is pissed when I have AK. But, she made a poor calldown, I’m almost always going to have a naked jack beat when I raise the flop, turn is a king and I bet turn and river.
A couple hands later is the biggest pot of my life I think. 1 limper, same girl from last hand raises on the button, I re-raise with 99 hoping to get heads up. BB (loose gambler) calls, limper folds, button 4-bets, we both call. Flop is beautiful:
9 3 2 rainbow.
I check, BB checks, girl bets, I call, BB calls.
Turn:
J, now there;s two hearts.
I check, BB checks, girl bets, I check-raise, BB 3-bets, girl (with what is obviously AA or KK) thinks, laments, and calls 2 more, I 4-bet, BB looks at me like WTF could you have (he has a strong hand, I doubt its JJ, he would’ve raised flop, so I basically have the nuts)…and he calls (he almost raised again but didn’t), I bet a king river and get two calls. BB had 33, girl AA, give me the pot.
I play for another two hours or so, make a few hands, get pretty tired and call it a night, +700.
Still to come yet...my most intense session of live poker. 15/30 shorthanded at the "V"
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:20 pm GMT by exit music
you're the best phil, good reporting :D
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:08 pm GMT by supafrey
| Quote: | I fold for an orbit, get AJo in the SB, have about 4 limpers to me, I don’t really like raising here and getting called and ending up with a big pot OOP. I call, BB checks, Flop is:
Ac 5h 3s
I lead out for $10 into a roughly $12 pot. All fold to Swedish guy who makes it $15 more. Uhhh….no idea where I am. I call. Turn is Q. I check he bets $40, I fold. |
It's not that the hand was played thaaaaat badly. Your logic here is just super weird and completely foreign to me. Preflop I may occasionally limp, but that's just to disguise the strength of my kicker. Most ppl wouldn't put me on a ten or higher if I limp preflop here, so I may get extra value should the BB raise in pos with their A8, A9s, etc. This depends on the kind of player. Most of the time I still probably raise, just to peg which particular player I'm going to be facing. Otherwise I'll be in check/call mode most of the hand unless I hit a monster.
Your flop bet is weird. There's no reason to bet out here as someone's going to do it before you, and you've already said that you're uncomfy playing this hand out of pos - if you're ACTUALLY uncomfy, then a flop c/r would probably give you the extra fold equity you need to take it down right there. Leading out is hardly a "powerful move" and is probably just going to bloat the pot. While there aren't tooo many draws that will call just to see another card, most mediocre aces, two pairs, even just LAGS would call/raise here to find out where they are or take another card. The C/R would be stronger to weed out for the cheapest amount (c/r gets added vig regardless of actual money size).
You also said you have no idea once you got raised... Well calling, then c/f the turn doesn't really give you much more info. Unless I'm certain I'm winning I may even 3bet the flop here. Or go into c/call mode a lot of the time (AJ is pretty high on my range) and maybe fold to a big river bet. The turn repop by him to 40 is pretty standard regardless of his cards, so your call + c/fold doesn't really "give you any information" which is what it was supposed to do. I usually fold or 3bet the flop, or c/call until the river atleast.
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:37 pm GMT by Phil14312
| supafrey wrote: | | Quote: | I fold for an orbit, get AJo in the SB, have about 4 limpers to me, I don’t really like raising here and getting called and ending up with a big pot OOP. I call, BB checks, Flop is:
Ac 5h 3s
I lead out for $10 into a roughly $12 pot. All fold to Swedish guy who makes it $15 more. Uhhh….no idea where I am. I call. Turn is Q. I check he bets $40, I fold. |
It's not that the hand was played thaaaaat badly. Your logic here is just super weird and completely foreign to me. Preflop I may occasionally limp, but that's just to disguise the strength of my kicker. Most ppl wouldn't put me on a ten or higher if I limp preflop here, so I may get extra value should the BB raise in pos with their A8, A9s, etc. This depends on the kind of player. Most of the time I still probably raise, just to peg which particular player I'm going to be facing. Otherwise I'll be in check/call mode most of the hand unless I hit a monster.
Your flop bet is weird. There's no reason to bet out here as someone's going to do it before you, and you've already said that you're uncomfy playing this hand out of pos - if you're ACTUALLY uncomfy, then a flop c/r would probably give you the extra fold equity you need to take it down right there. Leading out is hardly a "powerful move" and is probably just going to bloat the pot. While there aren't tooo many draws that will call just to see another card, most mediocre aces, two pairs, even just LAGS would call/raise here to find out where they are or take another card. The C/R would be stronger to weed out for the cheapest amount (c/r gets added vig regardless of actual money size).
You also said you have no idea once you got raised... Well calling, then c/f the turn doesn't really give you much more info. Unless I'm certain I'm winning I may even 3bet the flop here. Or go into c/call mode a lot of the time (AJ is pretty high on my range) and maybe fold to a big river bet. The turn repop by him to 40 is pretty standard regardless of his cards, so your call + c/fold doesn't really "give you any information" which is what it was supposed to do. I usually fold or 3bet the flop, or c/call until the river atleast. |
C/R flop, go from there. I agree the hand was played poorly. I really just didn't want to face a $60 river bet, which is why I folded turn. Sometimes I have no clue in NL.
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:35 pm GMT by Phil14312
Move to the Venetian for Friday night, we got a $199 deal, which I think is pretty good for the Venetian on a weekend night. Awesome hotel, good room, two TVs, living room, sweet bathroom, etc. Can’t recommend it enough.
Girlfriend and I start out playing some 4/8 at about 10:00 PM, we play for two hours, not a ton of hands to talk about, although my last hand was a monster.
I have 66 and limp after UTG the limps, 2 more limpers and we go 6-handed to the flop.
6 J 8
Checks to me I bet, call, fold, fold, call, fold. We go 3-handed to the turn, not the best card:
7
Checks to me I bet, next guy raises, BB 3-bets, now I know my hand isn’t good, but I’ve got 10 outs here. I call, Next guy calls (this guy raising the turn meant he had like 85% probability of the straight, 3-bettor clearly had straight).
River is the best card in the deck besides the 6:
7
Checks, I bet, Call, Call, I win with my fullhouse and rake in the massive pot.
Andy meanwhile makes 500 bucks at the 1/2 NL game (max 300).
We all get some food and I go back and get an open-seat playing 6-handed at the 15/30 V game. Rake is $1, sweet.
Guy to my right sucks, but not like 2/4 sucks, like 15/30 sucks so it takes me a while to figure out he is a huge calling station. Guy to me left really impressed me, probably the best live player I’ve ever played with. Texas was a good, but a bit LAGy and had been drinking, although as he sobered up he got a lot better. Girl who called me “young guy” was terribly drunk and loud-mouthed, she was playing super-fast (I would call her down with any pair). Other guy was really tight and didn’t play too much.
I literally fold every hand for at least two orbits, nothing playable, absolute garbarge. I finally raise JQs after bad guy limps, girl calls, bad guy calls.
Flop 8:diamond 9:diamond 2:club
Girl leads, bad guy calls, I call.
Turn: 7
Girl leads, bad guy folds, I raise, she calls
River: 4
She checks I bet she c/r all-in I fold (btw that was the most retarded hand I played on the trip, not even close)
The rest of the night kind of blurs together, although we played 3-handed between me, Lag, and bad player for about 2 hours at the end. These hands aren’t necessarily in order.
AA in the BB, No-limit player who sat down a few orbits ago (playing tight and kinda passive) raises, bad player calls on the button, I 3-bet, both call. Flop:
9 T 2
I bet, no-limit calls, bad player raises, I 3-bet, no limit calls, bad player 4-bets, I call, no-limit calls. Turn:
7
I check, no limit goes all-in for 1 bet, bad player calls, I call. River:
K
I check, bad player checks, I lost to his T9, no limit had like QT.
I have AT 5-handed, raise UTG, LAG calls on the button bad player calls. Flop:
6 5 2
I bet, LAG raises, Bad player folds, I call. Turn:
A
I bet he calls. River blanks, I bet he calls. My AT is good.
The most interesting hand for me was this: 3 handed, bad player straddled (1st straddle by anyone all night) I’m in the SB with AA, 3-bet, LAG (whose actually playing real solid right now) calls, bad player calls on the button.
Flop: J 9 5
I bet, LAG raises, bad player calls, I raise, LAG 4-bets I call (planning to c/r a safe turn).
Turn: A (this changes everything and this happened within a couple hands after that last hand with AT)
I donk because I don’t want him to check behind and I don’t want to c/r him and only earn 1 BB. River:
2
I bet, he thinks, I say something like “big pot” and he calls, my hand is good.
Can anyone figure out what he had on this hand? I can’t, he mumbled something about good think not a nine on the river, but he also mumbled something about being double-gutted?
Here’s another good one, 5-handed I get 9T on the button. LAG calls, Bad player calls, I call, SB and BB call. Flop:
J 9 6
SB checks, LAG checks, bad guy bets, I raise, SB c/3-bets, bad guy folds, I call. Turn:
T
He bets I call. River:
8, I think.
He bets I call, he shows the 7 8 for a turned straight flush, ouch. Shoulda dumped on the river I think, but glad no 9 or ten on the river too.
I’ll post some more in a little bit.
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