Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:04 pm GMT by raisebot
Live casino 1/2 NL, $300 max buy-in
Avg stack size, ~$150-$300
Hero- ~$400 (UTG)
Villian (LAG)- ~$1,500 (UTG +1)
Hero- 7  7 
PF- Hero raises, makes it $15 to go
Villian calls, 1 other caller
Flop- 5 5 6
Hero bets $20
Villian raises to $60
LP player folds
Hero calls
Turn- 7 
Hero checks
Villian bets $80
Hero raises all-in (~$300)
Villian goes into the tank, eventually folds. Claims he was on a flush draw, but never shows.
Bad play on the turn?
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Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:09 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I think it's a fine play, but I might actually just raise the minimum to try and lure him into the hand.
Why are you raising to $15 preflop?
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:25 pm GMT by raisebot
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | I think it's a fine play, but I might actually just raise the minimum to try and lure him into the hand. |
I thought about that after the hand, I was just too damn blindsided figuring he had a 5 and would call any bet I made. I'd also seen him call pot sized bets on non-nut draws, so if he was drawing to a straight or flush, I'd like to get his money in now while he was still drawing. I hadn't seen him get caught in any missed draw bluffs, and didn't think he'd take a stab at it if he missed.
| Quote: | | Why are you raising to $15 preflop? |
Because it was one of those stupid 5am games, where just about everybody was stuck money, calling anything just to see the flop. And because I was actually running very "lucky"- I flopped about 4 sets within the previous hour and a half. I bought in for only $150, and was running well.
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:30 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| Quote: | | I'd like to get his money in now while he was still drawing. |
Why? Unless he makes a straight flush, he is drawing totally dead with any draw.
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:37 pm GMT by raisebot
Because if he'd miss, I know I wouldn't see another dollar off him.
Sorta bad logic though, since I didn't see another dollar off him anyway.
There was just too many hands I figured he'd call on and pay me off now (if he's as strong as he's representing, I just can't see him folding now)-
5 X
8 9
3 4
8 8
9 9
T T
J J
Q Q
K K
A A
A 7 (?)
A 6 (?)
6 8
7 8
Posted Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:26 pm GMT by exit music
You have the nuts, a stop'n'go works on the turn/river, but going all-in there doesn't hurt nobody, if IWY, i'd do the same
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:25 pm GMT by AHBrownell
I like a call or a very small raise on the turn.
You might consider that if you make any small raise it basically commits you - and your opponent, without putting all the chips in. If you raise it to 180 - with only 120 left in your stack, if your opponent calls there is 500+ in the pot. It will be easy to get the 120 in on the river regardless of what comes on the river.
The problem with the hand is being out of position. This hand demonstrates it completely. If you bet the turn he probably folds/calls, but there is no way you could win much more than the $80 he bets when you check. If you check-raise, he probably folds the drawing hands you want to keep in. If you call the turn, you are stuck betting the river, which screams "I have a huge hand" and then he is only gonna pay you off the 1/5 of the time he hits his draw if he's drawing.
Cannot fault you too much for trying to get it all in on the turn. Truth be told, you really are only gonna get called by a 5 - but if your opponent doesn't have a 5, its gonna be hard to make much more off this hand anyway...
Posted Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:42 am GMT by Yozman
definately just double his 80 to 160 here, give him close to the right odds to make his hand stronger even though he is drawing dead. he might come ovedr the top of u, would b a dream but yeh he mght think ur trying to steal or something
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:46 pm GMT by BMG13
| exit music wrote: | | You have the nuts, a stop'n'go works on the turn/river, but going all-in there doesn't hurt nobody, if IWY, i'd do the same |
...do you know what a stop n go is? Hint: it's not what OP did and it's done preflop/flop.
BTW, "doesn't hurt nobody" = hurts somebody. You were lucky that you messed up your grammar and made a correct point, even though you didn't mean it. OP could have made more $$ on this hand. No reason to push an opponent off his hand if you have the nuts. RAISE the turn small again, hopefully he re-raises AGAIN. Then you can re-raise, and raise the river.
Recap:
1. Get your $$ in
2. Get his $$ in
3. ???
4. Profit
You skipped step 2.
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:59 pm GMT by supafrey
| BMG13 wrote: | | exit music wrote: | | You have the nuts, a stop'n'go works on the turn/river, but going all-in there doesn't hurt nobody, if IWY, i'd do the same |
...do you know what a stop n go is? Hint: it's not what OP did and it's done preflop/flop.
BTW, "doesn't hurt nobody" = hurts somebody. You were lucky that you messed up your grammar and made a correct point, even though you didn't mean it. OP could have made more $$ on this hand. No reason to push an opponent off his hand if you have the nuts. RAISE the turn small again, hopefully he re-raises AGAIN. Then you can re-raise, and raise the river.
Recap:
1. Get your $$ in
2. Get his $$ in
3. ???
4. Profit
You skipped step 2. |
Please don't bring crappy 2+2 trends over here. They're not welcome.
Ditto for being a grammar cowboy.
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:43 pm GMT by BMG13
I'm glad you were able to contribute to the post.
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:37 pm GMT by supafrey
| BMG13 wrote: | | What a silly strategy. |
I learned it from you, dad. I learned it from you.
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:55 pm GMT by BMG13
| supafrey wrote: | | BMG13 wrote: | | What a silly strategy. |
I learned it from you, dad. I learned it from you. |
Obviously not. I let the guy know his stratagy was silly. You still haven't added anything to this topic.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:08 am GMT by supafrey
50 posts on 2+2 and everyone becomes a smartass.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:26 am GMT by tame_deuces
| BMG13 wrote: | | OP could have made more $$ on this hand. |
That's of no real concern. We're interested in what makes us the most money overall, not what makes us the most money in single hands.
I'm not experienced in casinos, but from what I understand a live 1/2 NL game can play very loose like the lower online stakes games can do, and hence I'll wager that big overbets are easily more profitable than small pansy bets.
And yeah, these bet sizes often make you less money in single hands, but that isn't important. The important bit is if they make you less money overall, and that rests abit on how the game is flowing (are big bets standard or uncommon, for example), how you are playing yourself (and if anyone notice) and how villain is like.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:29 pm GMT by BMG13
You make absolutely no sense. To make the most money overall, you make the most from EACH hand. If you keep passing on +EV choices and making less +EV moves, you are making LESS money overall. You can't just play poker "overall," you have to play EACH HAND.
If you played "overall" poker, you would randomly raise preflop 5-15% of the time and be randomly putting $$ in the pot 15-30% of the time. How stupid does that sound?
Instead, you play the hand you are frikin' dealt and play accordingly. Your stats will be the same, but you won't be such a big loser.
"We aren't interested in what makes us the mot money in single hands." LMAO, why is EVERYONE posting single hands in the forums? Please, put down the crack pipe.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:12 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Obviously. Please read posts before you reply to them. And you also misquote me, which is very bad form.
I'll say it simple terms.
Bet 1: 100$
Bet 2: 25$
We disregard the hands were our opponent folds nomatter what we bet.
If bet 1 gets called 1 out of 4 times or more, it is the superior bet to make, but it will mean you make less money in some singular hands.
Hence criticisms of the type 'You could have made more $$$ in this hand' is fairly irrelevant. There may be arguments against the line in this hand, but that is not one of them.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:17 pm GMT by BMG13
Do you not realize that he overbet on the turn? There is still one more street to play and the villain is BETTING INTO US! "JACKPOT" SHOULD BE RINGING IN YOUR EARS.
OP is passing on highly +EV alternatives.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:20 pm GMT by BMG13
When we discuss hands on the forum, it's common knowledge that you would be making the same play 90%+ of the time. Thus anyone describing what play to make is suggesting that it's the best in the long run.
Don't be a nit just because you can't accept a commonly understood assumption.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:41 pm GMT by tame_deuces
My tone has been nothing but polite the entire way in this thread, but yet you keep reverting to insults in your posts, its fairly intriguing.
And I have been making assumptions of a somewhat generalized concept the entire way as far as I am concerned, though as I said in my original post overbets will always be somewhat situational, something they share with many poker concepts.
That this is a turn play is a legitimate criticism, but villain having position also negates the advantage smaller bets can give us quite abit, which also has to be taken into account, it is fairly probably we won't get more than our initial raise paid from a draw in most cases for example.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:48 pm GMT by supafrey
| BMG13 wrote: | You make absolutely no sense. To make the most money overall, you make the most from EACH hand. If you keep passing on +EV choices and making less +EV moves, you are making LESS money overall. You can't just play poker "overall," you have to play EACH HAND.
If you played "overall" poker, you would randomly raise preflop 5-15% of the time and be randomly putting $$ in the pot 15-30% of the time. How stupid does that sound?
Instead, you play the hand you are frikin' dealt and play accordingly. Your stats will be the same, but you won't be such a big loser.
"We aren't interested in what makes us the mot money in single hands." LMAO, why is EVERYONE posting single hands in the forums? Please, put down the crack pipe. |
It's funny when someone misunderstands, caricatures, misquotes and insults in the same post.
"Everyone" (which is a false generalization) posts single hands because it is the best thing we could do over the internet - it's not because it is the best way to learn, analyze or interpret strategy. That's laughable. That's like trying to take a photo of a river to see which way, how quickly, and how effectively it's flowing.
This is why asking people about individual hands based on stats alone never gets a straight answer - several key pros (DN for one) have already said how much they loathe the term EV because of how reductionist it is. A poker table isn't one hand within a vacuum - it's a series of ebbs and flows where "incomplete information" could still mean everything from emotions, skill level, odds, tilt, etc. The same play is DEFINITELY not made "90%" of the time. That's just flat out wrong.
I'm sure even the SSNL forum you frequent MUST have some mention of the words "meta" or "shania". You'd do best to take a few seconds reading up on either terms before you come across with the callousness and ignorance you've walked through the door here with. With 0 credentials flippant remarks and slow-witted kindergarten insults make you come across as little but a self-assured moron.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:32 pm GMT by Gunslinger
supa defends THP FTW. 
And he's completely correct.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:44 pm GMT by BMG13
| supafrey wrote: |
It's funny when someone misunderstands, caricatures, misquotes and insults in the same post. |
It's even more hilarious when two people develop a love connection over a forum. Luckily you two aren't in the United States, where you wouldn't be able to pursue your dreams.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:45 pm GMT by BMG13
| Gunslinger wrote: | supa defends THP FTW.
And he's completely correct. |
Wow, since you just backed him up... he is correct!
Wait, who are you again?
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:57 pm GMT by supafrey
| BMG13 wrote: | | Gunslinger wrote: | supa defends THP FTW.
And he's completely correct. |
Wow, since you just backed him up... he is correct!
Wait, who are you again? |
Said the person with a grand sum of 50 posts, half of which have been hostile, the other half of which have misinterpreted or misread other people's posts. Who are you, again?
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:54 pm GMT by zinn0
| BMG13 wrote: | | I'm a douche. |
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:04 pm GMT by efram
zinno wrote:
| Quote: | BMG13 wrote:
I'm a douche. |
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 pm GMT by exit music
| BMG13 wrote: | | exit music wrote: | | You have the nuts, a stop'n'go works on the turn/river, but going all-in there doesn't hurt nobody, if IWY, i'd do the same |
...do you know what a stop n go is? Hint: it's not what OP did and it's done preflop/flop.
BTW, "doesn't hurt nobody" = hurts somebody. You were lucky that you messed up your grammar and made a correct point, even though you didn't mean it. |
Yes, I know what a stop-n-go is. It's usually a tournament play for when you make a call from out of position preflop with every intention of going all-in on the flop, I like doing it with the 88-TT range based on my opponents... sometimes random A high as well.
Apparently you don't see how the series of plays involved in a stop-n-go relate to my post. Probably because you are a douche. And because you don't really care what people say, you are just looking for a reason to make fun... probably because you are an ugly loser who got made fun of in elementary/high school and can't get laid.
Do you seriously care about my grammar??? You are a censored censored I am sweet at grammar, the english is my best subject in school back at highschool.
| Quote: | | OP could have made more $$ on this hand. No reason to push an opponent off his hand if you have the nuts. RAISE the turn small again, hopefully he re-raises AGAIN. Then you can re-raise, and raise the river. |
If you restrained your post to this quote, instead of looking like a dumb-shit piece of ear-wax, you would look intelligent and respectworthy. Keep posting, but don't be a random 2+2 clone - think before you type and have respect, son.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:00 am GMT by BMG13
You have such a horrible idea of what a stop n go is. It's really bad...
YOU DON'T DO A STOP N GO WITH 88-TT. You want to get called with those hands preflop. The point of a Stop n go is that you have NO fold equity preflop, so you might as well go all-in on a flop when you have a little fold equity if the opponent misses.
Also, you aren't allowed to use 2+2 terms on this site... so you better stop preaching the (wrong) stop n go.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:01 am GMT by BMG13
| efram wrote: |
I'm a douche
zinno wrote:
I'm a douche
| Quote: | BMG13 wrote:
I'm the biggest douche, but I don't care. |
|
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:53 am GMT by exit music
| BMG13 wrote: | You have such a horrible idea of what a stop n go is. It's really bad...
YOU DON'T DO A STOP N GO WITH 88-TT. You want to get called with those hands preflop. The point of a Stop n go is that you have NO fold equity preflop, so you might as well go all-in on a flop when you have a little fold equity if the opponent misses.
Also, you aren't allowed to use 2+2 terms on this site... so you better stop preaching the (wrong) stop n go. |
Dude, TT is a fine hand to SNG with, especially if you put your opponent on overcards, I'd usually rather not let AK see 5 cards when a stop and go has the ability to let him see only 3... if you like gambling and forcing coinflips with your mid pairs, well that's fine for you. I make that play pretty often myself. Regardless, I DO know what a stop and go is, so once again you've made a post without actually thinking, you just try to make yourself look smart... good job.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:59 am GMT by exit music
I do see what you are saying - about how if your hand has showdown value, you might be better off being all-in preflop and saving stop-n-gos to hands like Kx or whatever, hands that don't beat anything PF, but have a chance of making a better hand - like A high or small pair - fold. This is definitely more suited to Sit-n-go tournaments, the examples I used were probably more for deeper stacked tournaments
Okay you can continue to correct me, I anxiously await your response :roll:
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:29 am GMT by MrDarling
Do we really need another person on this board who think he knows everything and berate everyone's opinion?
we have Supa for that.
One is enough.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:49 am GMT by tame_deuces
| MrDarling wrote: | Do we really need another person on this board who think he knows everything and berate everyone's opinion?
we have Supa for that.
One is enough. |
Actually that won't be a problem, since I'm pretty sure one of the qualifications for such a position is to actually read people's posts before you berate them.
Like this:
1.) Read.
2.) Berate.
Not like this:
1.) ???
2.) Berate.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:45 am GMT by MrDarling
Thats why we love our Supa, he can at least read!
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:46 am GMT by Johny
| BMG13 wrote: | | efram wrote: |
I'm a douche
zinno wrote:
I'm a douche
| Quote: | BMG13 wrote:
I'm the biggest douche, but I don't care. |
|
|
The f*cking moron quoted himself again. gtfo
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:05 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
Always gotta love it when a forum unites against a jackass.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:37 pm GMT by BMG13
| Johny wrote: | | BMG13 wrote: | | efram wrote: |
I'm a douche
zinno wrote:
I'm a douche
| Quote: | BMG13 wrote:
I'm the biggest douche, but I don't care. |
|
|
The f*cking moron quoted himself again. gtfo |
OMG REALLY? Are youblind? I added stuff too.
No need to jump on the bandwagon.
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:12 am GMT by MrDarling
| Jefecaminador wrote: | | Always gotta love it when a forum unites against a jackass. |
Yep. Imagine that.
Maybe its a trick made by the mods to bring us all together?
He can't be real, can he? No body is THAt much of an idiot, or are they?
I'm confused 
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:07 am GMT by General Sal
Man, what did this post turn into? Good grief, charlie brown. Either way... let's maximize earning potential.
You got him to bet after you checked to him... I really think the all in bet was the wrong play. Call the turn... you have 7s full on that board! If he really has a five, he might actually pair his other card and you'd have the bigger boat! Or if he was drawing to the flush, he'll pay you off on the river.
I'd say, call... then bet the river quickly... I'd say even $50 he'll call with a flush. He might be putting you on trip 5s.
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