Posted Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:58 pm GMT by PLOCH
The excitement of cash games is great yet my bankroll gets sucked dry.
In SNG's my play is much better (last 10- 2 wins, 2 seconds, 3 thirds).
Why doesnt my strong play carry to cash games? Been playing two years now and it's always been this way.
Thoughts?
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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:48 pm GMT by jeffonline
I have also been playing about 2 years and built my bankroll on sit & goes, during a bad run I started playing cash games, I found I could recover my lost sit & go buyins quickly. So I would play a sit & go if I lost I would play a cash game and win back my lost buyin then quit. This continued for several months and my bankroll kept growing. I then decided to ditch the sit & goes altogether and play only cash games, since then my bankroll had stabilized. I find that during the cash game I am in front at some point however one mistake one wrong read, missed draws etc and any on the + side has gone. I am sure that If I set myself a win limit like 20-50BB or 20-50% of my buyin and could happy with that, I could progress my bankroll but I find it hard to walk whilst in front. I think the biggest problem with cash games is that they have no end, there is no goal, unlike sit & goes your either in or out. So my answer is set a win limit you are happy with and walk when you reach that limit.
Posted Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:41 pm GMT by mortaleclipse
I play like a retarded donk durning SnG's. Some reason I get itchy to play pots and bust out fast. Cash games I for some reason will fold for hours if need be to get my hands.
Posted Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:18 am GMT by Jauron
To point out the obvious, a cash game plays different than a SNG.
I know some excellent SNG players that struggle in cash games, they just can't adjust their game.
The deep stack nature of a cash game combined with no fear of elimination make it completely different than a SNG, especially with most SNG's having aggressive blinds.
Posted Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:27 am GMT by jimmer
| PLOCH wrote: | | Why doesnt my strong play carry to cash games? |
I'm guessing you're aware of the key differences of cash games and sng's? I'm also guessing you can adapt accordingly???
99% of my play is cash games. I like the fact I can choose who I want to play and where i want to sit. If either of these factors make me uncomfortable, I leave.
Lots of players win money on the cash tables, but play with a big negitive expectation. They are litrally long-term losers. The reason is simple; when they win, the conditions suit their style of play, when they loose, it doesn't.
The key thing with cash tables is to look at your game over say 100,000 hands. The reason is this; In a torny/sng, if the blinds are eating you up, eventually you choose two reasonable cards and push all-in. You either bum out or double-up. In a cash game, you should never be in that situation as your stack size should always be massive (compared to the blinds).
The other big difference is the way you assess and review your sessions. In tornys/sng's, you can usually pin-point three or four hands which were key to you either winning money, or losing it. In a cash game, every hand has to be analysed.
For example, if you're in a torny/sng and sat on the SB, if theres a few limpers before you, even if your cards are very average, you're usually getting a reasonable price to see the flop. Visa-versa, on a cash table, although the pot odds are the same, it's not worth risking an average hand. (obviuosly there are 101 other factors involved in making this desicion, but you get the point)
The third and final point I would like to make is; the physchology and mindset of the cash game player. In a torny, if you're the big stack, you can usually push the other players around and get away with it. In a cash game, your style shouldn't change.
Three weeks ago, I came across a player i preceived as being weak post flop and I thought i could out play him. He won a few big hands (against others), got a big stack and then decided to call everything and anyone. I didn't have a problem with this as I knew he'd eventally come unstuck. I entered three pots against him and lost all three times. He took a total of $320 from me in around two hours. I then questioned my anaylsis of him. I spent the following 11 hours reviewing the previous session and i came to the conclusion he was indeed a poor player post flop. Over the following 2 days I watched him play a total of 9hours. I then went back to play him. (I then waited another 2 days to get the seat to his left!) 4 hours into that session I'd taken $1,280 from him.
You couldn't do that on a torny/sng.
Posted Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:21 pm GMT by PLOCH
| jimmer wrote: | | PLOCH wrote: | | Why doesnt my strong play carry to cash games? |
I'm guessing you're aware of the key differences of cash games and sng's? I'm also guessing you can adapt accordingly???
99% of my play is cash games. I like the fact I can choose who I want to play and where i want to sit. If either of these factors make me uncomfortable, I leave.
Lots of players win money on the cash tables, but play with a big negitive expectation. They are litrally long-term losers. The reason is simple; when they win, the conditions suit their style of play, when they loose, it doesn't.
The key thing with cash tables is to look at your game over say 100,000 hands. The reason is this; In a torny/sng, if the blinds are eating you up, eventually you choose two reasonable cards and push all-in. You either bum out or double-up. In a cash game, you should never be in that situation as your stack size should always be massive (compared to the blinds).
The other big difference is the way you assess and review your sessions. In tornys/sng's, you can usually pin-point three or four hands which were key to you either winning money, or losing it. In a cash game, every hand has to be analysed.
For example, if you're in a torny/sng and sat on the SB, if theres a few limpers before you, even if your cards are very average, you're usually getting a reasonable price to see the flop. Visa-versa, on a cash table, although the pot odds are the same, it's not worth risking an average hand. (obviuosly there are 101 other factors involved in making this desicion, but you get the point)
The third and final point I would like to make is; the physchology and mindset of the cash game player. In a torny, if you're the big stack, you can usually push the other players around and get away with it. In a cash game, your style shouldn't change.
Three weeks ago, I came across a player i preceived as being weak post flop and I thought i could out play him. He won a few big hands (against others), got a big stack and then decided to call everything and anyone. I didn't have a problem with this as I knew he'd eventally come unstuck. I entered three pots against him and lost all three times. He took a total of $320 from me in around two hours. I then questioned my anaylsis of him. I spent the following 11 hours reviewing the previous session and i came to the conclusion he was indeed a poor player post flop. Over the following 2 days I watched him play a total of 9hours. I then went back to play him. (I then waited another 2 days to get the seat to his left!) 4 hours into that session I'd taken $1,280 from him.
You couldn't do that on a torny/sng. |
Very nice explanation. I guess I do play too many mediocre hands in cash games. I also find myself getting caught up in watching guys win with crap yet when I play crap I deservedly lose.
My best play ever was in our THP tournies on Party. I knew 90% of the players were good and played accordingly.
Posted Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:57 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
I think that many players who are switching over to cash games from SnG's are simply too aggressive. They raise-bluff too often from late position, reraise too often on early streets, and continuation bet too often (and often for too much), especially out of position. All of those plays, which are very effective when stacks are short, are often quite ineffective when stacks are relatively deep.
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:00 am GMT by exit music
| PLOCH wrote: | The excitement of cash games is great yet my bankroll gets sucked dry.
In SNG's my play is much better (last 10- 2 wins, 2 seconds, 3 thirds).
Why doesnt my strong play carry to cash games? Been playing two years now and it's always been this way.
Thoughts? |
I personally think it's because you are playing outside your bankroll and/or skill level. If you get overly excited when you win or lose pots, it affects your thinking and you start to play poorly. If you only have $300 or so in your account you shouldn't really be playing higher than .05c/10c cash games unless you have repeatly beaten 25NL or more, but if you can do that, your bankroll would never be that low.
Once the money doesn't mean much anymore, you will start to think better about the game, accumulate a bankroll to play higher limits, and actually learn how to play well after the flop. That is, if you are smart.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:16 am GMT by jimmer
I’ve thought of another major difference between cash tables and tornys/sng’s.
On cash tables; you are not competing against the whole table. All you’re doing is looking for a few players to pay you off. If you can’t find anyone, you can leave!
Yesterday, I’d been sat at a table for around 2hours and asked myself ‘where’s my next dollar coming from?’ I couldn’t answer, so I left and found another table.
In a torny/sng, you have no choice.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:38 pm GMT by khaosanroad
| jimmer wrote: | On cash tables; you are not competing against the whole table. All you’re doing is looking for a few players to pay you off. If you can’t find anyone, you can leave!
|
I don't discriminate, I'm looking to take everyone's money.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:39 pm GMT by supafrey
| jimmer wrote: | I’ve thought of another major difference between cash tables and tornys/sng’s.
On cash tables; you are not competing against the whole table. All you’re doing is looking for a few players to pay you off. If you can’t find anyone, you can leave!
Yesterday, I’d been sat at a table for around 2hours and asked myself ‘where’s my next dollar coming from?’ I couldn’t answer, so I left and found another table.
In a torny/sng, you have no choice. |
I really don't think this applies until at least 200nl or higher online.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:47 pm GMT by tame_deuces
This is true. In my lowstakes online experience (which is a nice bit though hardly the amount some here achieve), it is not often I have found a full ring table with more than 1-2 decent players. And for 6-max I'd say it is an exception to the rule to find a decent player at the table.
For NL that is. In FL I'd say it pays very well to look for live ones even at low stakes.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:39 pm GMT by BMG13
Grunching this topic
Cash:
No ceiling... tons of room for growth.
No time constraint. If something comes up, you can leave.
SnGS:
Less variance
Easier to multitable
You can play robotic pretty much, you don't need to know how to play poker. You just need to know how to play the structure.
Cons:
Cash:
More variance
Requires better play. You actually have to know how to play poker
SnGs:
There's a limit as to how high you can go. The players also get progressively much better the higher you go compared to cash games.
You are forced to play until finish or throw away your buy-in. Sitting out for a few minutes isn't an option.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:01 pm GMT by MrDarling
| BMG13 wrote: | Grunching this topic
|
Grunching?
We do not use this term around here boy 
btw, the difference between cash game and S&G is that in cash game you play with cash,and in S&G you play with chips - Doh!
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:46 pm GMT by BMG13
Fortunately, I can decide what term to use!
Nice try at controlling people though, it works better on sheep.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:08 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| MrDarling wrote: |
btw, the difference between cash game and S&G is that in cash game you play with cash,and in S&G you play with chips - Doh! |
The joking tone aside, this is actually incredibly correct. 
The main difference between SNG and cash is very logical, in an SNG the relationship between $$$/chips to you as a player is not linear, but can change as the game conditions change. This again logically means that plays that are inherently -EV in a cash game can be +EV in an SNG and vice versa.
I won't bother with specifics, all you guys know those things without me droning on about them.
As for why someone is better at one than the other, I don't think we have to get terribly philosophical. They are simply different and people excel at different form of games and logic.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:42 pm GMT by Jefecaminador
The difference between sng's and cash games?
sngs are more strategic in nature while cash games are more tacticle.
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