How to play Supa like players |
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Posted Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:09 am GMT by MrDarling
Hi ,
Today in a session I sat with a guy that was very aggressive when ever he was in a pot.
Now, he wasn't a manaic. He didn't raise every pot or seen all of them.
when ever he raised , he min raise. Then if you cal or raised he would PB every street. If you reraise he'd call and PB the next street. Of course, if you have the goods then it is easy.
But how good should the goods be?
The only hand I show him show down was a weak A on a KAx flop. Other players who kept trying to push him of had a K or something.
I did manage to shove him of a hand once when he kept raising my blinds. I simply c/r his flop raised and led the turn (with Air) and he did fold.
Only work once.
So. do you need to stack against the like of him with TPTK, or do you wait for 2 pairs or better.
Thanks
Danny
Supa, if you are reading this, who do you hate to play against most? My guess will be calling station. Though I think you pretty soon make more out of them then they of you.
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Posted Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:47 pm GMT by khaosanroad
Against Supa himself you have you work cut out for you, but against similar players, I just trap them and let them do the betting.
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:13 pm GMT by Jauron
Having position on them will help more than just about anything else.
Then you just mix up your play, show them one thing and then show them another. In general you gotta show them your willing to bluff too or they'll just fold when you stand up for yourself.
Trapping works sometimes too but you can't be predictable or they'll eat you alive. I'll even pick a spot to call them down with Ace high or just top pair and see if it slows them down at all. The goal is to show them there is easier money to made on the table, and to not get involved with you... if they refuse you just pick your spots. MOST of the time sheer aggression will work as well, if you feel they can outplay you push more often against them.
Overall though if they are kicking your butt get on another table. Poker should not be personal and if they are outplaying you and you stay you've probably made it that way.
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:24 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Loosen your standards against a loose player, and let them bluff off their chips, as others said. Exactly HOW good your hand needs to be depends on a lot of factors, but when someone is playing more than 3 hands per round, top pair is usually a pretty darn good hand against them.
Posted Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:38 pm GMT by supafrey
Ppl that know how to adjust their preflop standards to suitably 3-bet me without overextending themselves and can make decent continuation bets fudge me pretty hard.
Most people just trap me though.
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:55 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
well if u want to know how to play supa-like players i suggest to play supa HU
u will learn that i promise
i'm just not sure what u will learn first,
that game selection is importnat or how to beat him
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:45 am GMT by MrDarling
Playing HU is a total different beast then playing 6 max.
Though I'm struggling against maniacs in HU, in low levels its usually enough to c/r once or trap them and they slow down.
In 6 max your TP is not as strong as in HU. And since villain can have ATC, you always have to wonder if your TPTK any good.
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:34 pm GMT by khaosanroad
Hopefully you're not making it your "mission" to beat the very aggressive player.
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:03 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Occasionally bluff when you would otherwise fold and switch between calling down/raising if you got an ok piece. Semi-bluffing is always ok. Depends on how good the guy is, if he is good you have to keep it somewhat in line.
If you know you're going to play weak/fold too much, switch tables.
I don't know what a 'supa-like' player is though, but it certainly is far more than a guy who min-raises alot.
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:20 pm GMT by UrAteUp
Position...Position...Position...this can not be stressed enough.
Also remember don't risk all your chips in a pot with just TP. You want to have a hand better then the aggro player.
I like what Supa himself said. If you get a great flop then just continuation bet. It looks weak and might get the aggro player to make a move against you allowing a trap. Just don't let them draw cheaply against you.
Posted Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:36 am GMT by MrDarling
Like I said, I don't mind Maniacs: Those who raise and reraise EVERY hand. They are easy to play and I just hope to be the first one to bust them. It is usually the case, because people really lower their AI requirement against them and actually pay them more. Against those I'll sometimes 3bet with air, or c/r so they wouldn't know what hit them when I actually have a hand to bust them.
The Supa like, I call the slightly more intelligent aggressive players. They don't play every hand. The always raise when they enter a pot (ok, this guy only min raise, but you'll be surprise how effective this is in micro level. When someone min raise people will only call unless they have a monster - and someone will only call even with AK hoping to trap. But then they have to fold UI) Every time he called my raise he either lead or raised my C-bet. So after my AK didn't UI the 10th time I decided to reraise, and then he either raise again, or lead the turn. And since all I had was A high I had to fold.
Since the dude didn't play every hand, it was hard to put him on a maniac range. And since his method was effective, I only show his hand once. When someone else raise flop had AKX. Dude this is usual stuff . It went to SD. Dude had a weak A but it won over KQ..
I have to admit, I really don't like when people play back at me. If I miss the flop and someone c/r , I'll usually fold. If they reraise me PF, I often just call and fold UI (though I guess I should reraise with AK and fold -AQ?)
Though I'm doing pretty good at $25NL , I dread the thought of having to face all those aggressors on $50NL when the time comes.
Posted Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:13 am GMT by khaosanroad
| MrDarling wrote: |
Though I'm doing pretty good at $25NL , I dread the thought of having to face all those aggressors on $50NL when the time comes. |
It's not really any different at 50NL, just more money.
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:03 pm GMT by AHBrownell
Call more with mediocre hands - only raise when you are prepared to go all the way with it, ie if you have the nuts or near nuts.
These guys will bet no matter what they have, so you don't need to bluff them ever, you just need to call them down, and raise them PREFLOP and on the RIVER when you are very strong. The rest of the time, try to keep the pot as small as possible.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:01 am GMT by MrDarling
Lets pretend we are talking about Supa for a second. His bread of players are not the stupid maniacs one. If they notice you only bet with the nuts - well they'll wont call you.
I do really believe against those you should be willing to raise / fold many more hands PF. You should be 3betting lightly .Other wise, you will not be able to stack them.
Like I said, against micro levels manaics I have no problems playing. I simply wait for a good hand and bust them (Its amazing how the rest of the table does exactly the opposite - start calling much more with marginal hands and going bust with them)
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:06 am GMT by supafrey
Position and pressure are really your only hopes. A "smart player" (I'm not sure I qualify) that's also "loose" and "aggressive" is going to, on average, be holding weaker holdings than you are.
This should make the next step obvious: Be in position and choose your battles. Chances are that their range of cards is worse than your own - let the aggro take your blinds (which equal 1BB obviously) because every time you step into a pot with them (in position) you're going to be playing for bigger pots (calling their 3-4x raise preflop = bigger pot). Honestly, if you're playing with anyone that's VERY aggro and VERY good, you should prolly just leave the table - if you think you have a shot, you may need to sit out more hands than usual but the ones you do play will be bigger. I hope you have the roll and balls to play big pots - position and cards will only help so much.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:55 am GMT by MrDarling
luckily, in the level I play, they are rarely that intelligent .
Here is a prime example. I just sat in the table but it looked like the guy is a good example of an aggressive idiot :
Full Tilt Poker Game #2285628110: Table Idledale (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:48:44 ET - 2007/04/25
Seat 1: Jade RedStone ($25)
Seat 2: DrCongo19 ($33.60)
Seat 3: Aja7588 ($13.40)
Seat 4: ToddtheTiger ($20.75)
Seat 5: nerdixxx ($26.70)
Seat 6: Bake276 ($25.35)
ToddtheTiger posts the small blind of $0.10
nerdixxx posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Bake276 folds
DrCongo19 folds
Aja7588 raises to $0.50
ToddtheTiger raises to $0.75
nerdixxx calls $0.50
Aja7588 calls $0.25
*** FLOP ***   
ToddtheTiger bets $4
nerdixxx calls $4
Aja7588 raises to $12.65, and is all in
ToddtheTiger raises to $20, and is all in
nerdixxx calls $16
ToddtheTiger shows  
nerdixxx shows  
Aja7588 shows  
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
ToddtheTiger shows a full house, Jacks full of Queens
nerdixxx shows a flush, Ace high
ToddtheTiger wins the side pot ($14) with a full house, Jacks full of Queens
Aja7588 shows two pair, Jacks and Nines
ToddtheTiger wins the main pot ($38.20) with a full house, Jacks full of Queens
ToddtheTiger: yes
ToddtheTiger: hell yes
Aja7588 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $54.90 Main pot $40.20. Side pot $14.70. | Rake $2.70
Board:
Seat 1: Jade RedStone is sitting out
Seat 2: DrCongo19 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Aja7588 (button) showed and lost with two pair, Jacks and Nines
Seat 4: ToddtheTiger (small blind) showed and won ($52.20) with a full house, Jacks full of Queens
Seat 5: nerdixxx (big blind) showed and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: Bake276 didn't bet (folded)
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:40 pm GMT by khaosanroad
Wow. that has to hurt. Todd must have thought he was a genius.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:50 pm GMT by MrDarling
lol. He did. Kept saying how figured both on a draw or something.
Though on the span of 50 hands, he was back down to $11.
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:28 pm GMT by snoogins47
Basically other than the obvious, one of the things that seems to work well against the smart and typically the significantly aggro types is to keep your eye out for his reactions to common situations, and try to stay under his radar.
The better idea you can get on how he plays 'unknowns' and the longer you can make sure you're an 'unknown' yourself, you're probably best off. You'll be able to see if his MO includes shutting down after getting floated on the flop, rarely folding to resistance in heads up pots, etc. etc... and you can usually pick a lot of spots to take advantage of your status as an unknown. Check-raise with air a few times on his C-bets. Start floating with nothing, unless he's got a tendency to fire three barrels, then 'float' with a monster and let him hang himself. If he gets bitten by that once or twice, you open him up to the regular-ol float-with-rags more. Etc.
The key really is to do everything in your power to seem at least somewhat predictable and let him work his 'default' magic on you and milk that as much as you can. Keep him in "exploit the moron" mode as long as you can. Hopefully you're good enough and smart enough to make this a significant mistake for him.
Once it gets to the point where he realizes you're paying attention and capable of mixing things up, life gets a lot more interesting, a lot more fun, and a lot less profitable. You'll both probably end up trying to play much more defensively and less predictably... and then it's just a matter of trying to play better than him, and hopefully getting luckier. I'm sure you're predictable and exploitable as we all are, just hope that he's moreso, or not very good at picking up on your own tendencies.
There's also a lot I wanted to write about how multiway pots get quite interesting depending on who's involved in the pot, especially when two players who view each other as smart/skilled are involved, but I'll save all that.
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