Posted Tue May 01, 2007 5:12 am GMT by MrDarling
Every time I think I got this Poker thingy figured out - It happens. I lose over 10 buyins in a couple of days.
I had a good 10 days , with around 13BB/100 over 10K hands. Was starting to think about moving up a level (from $25 to $50) and then this happens. In two days.
sure some of these are just cooler (AK vas A5 AI PF he spike a 5, Q's running to A's , AK running to A's , A's get cracked by sets, sets running into str8 and flushes etc...) but mostly it bad play.
When I'm running good I can make some sick lay downs. I don't mind if people bluff me and I fold a lot of good hands in marginal situations (K's in a reraised pot with A on the flop etc...) I also manage to get value from my good hands.
But when I run bad, I simply can't fold my flush draw, I think everyone bluffs me and I get real frustrated when my c-bet keep getting c/r, my Pf raises get reraised and I start to make stupid moves...
end of rant :9
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Posted Tue May 01, 2007 7:45 am GMT by tame_deuces
Well, being good at poker is as much about keeping your cool and focus as it as about your basic knowledge, deep knowledge and other qualities. Often you will find that it is in fact MORE important than just about anything else.
So if you're a tiltmonkey then you have to stop it, because that is bad poker on the lines of the guys you see cold-calling an UTG/UTG+1 preflop bet/re-raise with J2o in the SB.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 8:05 am GMT by steffend
I got the same kinda the same thing, when it goes bad, I start playing bad and it feels like I aint hitting anything, so I start playing worse and loosing more chasing after hands.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 9:52 am GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| tame_deuces wrote: | | Often you will find that it is in fact MORE important than just about anything else. |
I'd have a lot more money if I wasn't psychotic.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 12:28 pm GMT by khaosanroad
It would appear that emotion is the biggest thing holding you back these days. It's not easy taking the emotion out of your game.
Try to imagine you are on this board reading someone else's hand histories when you are playing.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 1:02 pm GMT by gumbie
| MrDarling wrote: | Every time I think I got this Poker thingy figured out - It happens. I lose over 10 buyins in a couple of days.
I had a good 10 days , with around 13XBB over 10K hands. |
I assume you mean 13BB/100 over 10k hands. Which would be 1300BB total then you lost 500BB.
So you are at 800BB over 12k hands or 6.7BB/100.
Swings happen. 13BB/100 is probably unsustainable for almost anyone.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 2:11 pm GMT by MrDarling
I lost a little more then 10 buyins which is 1000BB.
In $ I made $450 and lost $300...
I'm going to post few hands and hope to see you guys opinion if it was in fact real bad play, gamble or simply coolers..
Hand 1 : Set of J's in a reraised pot
Full Tilt Poker Game #2322298334: Table Adobe (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:41:51 ET - 2007/04/30
Seat 1: sebumd403 ($32.15)
Seat 2: LeandroJose_BR ($24.65)
Seat 3: lexsoarer400 ($37.15)
Seat 4: rburns5 ($32.95)
Seat 5: Slipher ($17.90)
Seat 6: hero ($26.25)
rburns5 posts the small blind of $0.10
Slipher posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***spsx<o
Dealt to hero  
hero raises to $1.10
sebumd403 raises to $2.45
LeandroJose_BR folds
lexsoarer400 folds
rburns5 folds
Slipher folds
hero calls $1.35
*** FLOP ***   
hero checks
sebumd403 bets $3
hero raises to $9
sebumd403 raises to $29.70, and is all in
Hand 2 : Nut flush draw and a Pair
Full Tilt Poker Game #2327041495: Table Findlay (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:34:34 ET - 2007/05/01
Seat 1: MrHIghschool ($35.15)
Seat 2: hero ($62.75)
Seat 3: urmyatm44 ($48.65)
Seat 5: gger ($26)
Seat 6: mb119982 ($27.75)
MrHIghschool posts the small blind of $0.10
hero posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero 
urmyatm44 folds
gger raises to $0.85
mb119982 folds
MrHIghschool folds
mb119982 stands up
hero calls $0.60
*** FLOP ***   
hero checks
gger bets $1.80
hero calls $1.80
*** TURN *** 
hero checks
gger bets $5.40
hero raises to $60.10, and is all in
Hand 3 : Q's being reraised
Full Tilt Poker Game #2326744975: Table Findlay (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:09:50 ET - 2007/05/01
Seat 1: Mass666 ($28.45)
Seat 2: hero ($24.65)
Seat 3: urmyatm44 ($43.55)
Seat 4: natedeezle ($104)
Seat 5: gger ($26.60)
Seat 6: Townie Railer ($26.45)
Townie Railer posts the small blind of $0.10
Mass666 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero 
hero has 15 seconds left to act
hero raises to $1
urmyatm44 folds
natedeezle folds
gger folds
Townie Railer has 15 seconds left to act
Townie Railer folds
Mass666 raises to $3
hero calls $2
*** FLOP ***   
Mass666 checks
hero checks
*** TURN *** 
Mass666 checks
hero bets $3
Mass666 raises to $8
hero calls $5
*** RIVER ***
Mass666 checks
hero checks
Hand 4 : AKo in a reraised pot. Didn't believe his flop bet
Full Tilt Poker Game #2327118174: Table Point Sal (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:03:41 ET - 2007/05/01
Seat 1: Iceonme ($24.15)
Seat 2: chrisofAKind ($23.90)
Seat 3: teamLiddell ($64.55)
Seat 4: BThong ($30.65)
Seat 5: hero ($26.15)
Seat 6: m4rco1712 ($11.40)
teamLiddell posts the small blind of $0.10
BThong posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero 
hero raises to $1
m4rco1712 folds
Iceonme folds
chrisofAKind folds
teamLiddell raises to $3.25
BThong folds
hero calls $2.25
*** FLOP ***  
teamLiddell bets $7
hero raises to $22.90, and is all in
teamLiddell calls $15.90
hero shows
teamLiddell shows
Hand 5 : same deal different hand
Full Tilt Poker Game #2321767987: Table Faiss (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:58:11 ET - 2007/04/30
Seat 1: DaMKay ($8.35)
Seat 2: Andrew_Kensmoe ($24.50)
Seat 3: waga ($52.70)
Seat 4: hero ($27.70)
Seat 5: iamVillaiNmo ($24.40)
Seat 6: Flagadis ($61.50)
iamVillaiNmo posts the small blind of $0.10
Flagadis posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero  
DaMKay is feeling confused
DaMKay folds
Andrew_Kensmoe folds
DaMKay is feeling happy
waga folds
DaMKay is feeling angry
hero raises to $1
DaMKay is feeling normal
iamVillaiNmo raises to $3.25
Flagadis folds
hero calls $2.25
*** FLOP *** 
iamVillaiNmo has 15 seconds left to act
iamVillaiNmo bets $5
hero raises to $24.45, and is all in
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 3:15 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| MrDarling wrote: | | I had a good 10 days , with around 13BB/100 over 10K hands. |
| gumbie wrote: | | I assume you mean 13BB/100 over 10k hands. Which would be 1300BB total then you lost 500BB. |
| MrDarling wrote: | | I lost a little more then 10 buyins which is 1000BB. |
When you say 13BB/100, people assume that is Poker Tracker Big Bet/100, where a PTBB is twice the big blind. That is why gumbie says 10 buy-ins is 500BBs.
Doing the math, $450 over 10K hands at 25NL is 9PTBB/100, and 18 big blinds/100.
I know this doesn't help much with finding problems in your game, just so we're all on the same math page.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 3:18 pm GMT by khaosanroad
most of those hands you were out of position, that doesn't help. No one seems to respect your pushes, which perhaps means you have a maniac image post flop.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 4:33 pm GMT by MrDarling
I edited the post since originally it said 13XBB.... And since not all of us have PT - for me BB = Big Blinds.
Took a short break from the game (half a day) Went to play a live S&g (Which I finished 2nd) and just had a good session , 400 hands netted $40 (160XBB) (even though my A's got cracked by Q's. UTG raise, I reraise from LP SB push with Q's - and hit a 4 cards flush )
I think the main leak in my game, when running bad is sticking to hands. I'm sure that when I play good I fold the best hand very often. But I usually do it when the pot is small, and my hand though ok is far from being strong enough to face those big bets later on.
Posted Tue May 01, 2007 5:55 pm GMT by vyni
Based on these one alone, I can imagine that Khaos is right: you've probably had a very poor table image lately.
imho, and only because you asked for it
Hand 1: always nice to flop a set, but not like this. What could villain have reraised us with preflop? AK is a very easy assumption. The check raise on the flop, with our position here, was horrible. Also note you checked the flop on all three of the first hands from early positions. Trying to trap way too much on boards that can easily have us behind. On hand 1, I would have bet the pot on the flop, and likely folded to reraise. Love having made the set, but not like this.
Hand 2: We check/called a pot size wager on a flush draw board that shows an overcard. Villain has either overbet his flush draw (which we likely would beat), or the more likely that he is representing that ace: he's the preflop raiser here, so top pair can be assumed. Turn, we made middle pair which we should have already assumed is beat. We check, again, and villain fires off another pot sized bet. We respond by pushing into a 10 dollar pot? imho, we should have folded to the pot bet of the flop on this one.
Hand 3: Villain reraised us preflop: pocket pair or maybe ak aq etc. Poor position, fugly flop that has to be addressed asap. Only immediate fear is of jacks as 7x wouldn't likely have reraised us preflop. Opportunity to represent a 7 (or an overpair with our preflop bet). I would have fired off a pot sized wager again here, and likely folded to a considerable reraise. The turn, we bet half the pot behind a 5, to be reraised. So nobody has really represented anything here... calls not bad. That river presented us a nice opportunity: would villain be so stupid as to check a boat on the river? We have top 2 pair now and he checked.... I feel a hefty bet was in order here as you could easily get an ace kicker to call it for the split. I hope I'm wrong on this one and villain did have us beat, otherwise it's a missed opportunity for what could have been a decent pot.
Hand 4: villain bet the pot on a flush draw, and you pushed with ace high. Enough said. This ones gambling, not poker.
Hand 5: assuming this one was just tilt.
and I'll repeat imho again here
Posted Wed May 02, 2007 12:48 am GMT by MrDarling
Vyni , thanks for the detailed reply. But really there is no need to be so careful. I ask for critic and I'm happy to get it
This is all 6 max, and I do raise a lot from position, but I don't think I have a maniac image or anything. I'll look through the HH again and see my action prior to these hands.
But I know that the hand where my AK got reraised by KJs, I've only been at the table a couple of orbits, and didn't do anything out of the ordinary. In fact, in that table there were a lot of reraising. By two players. So I simply decided not to give it too much credit.Should have probably pushed that one PF.
Here is my thought process on the few hands where I had one :
Hand 1 : Due to the reraise I put villain on A's - Q's, AK most likely.
Not the best flop however, I'm only real dead to Q's, have 10 outs again AK and in front of A's and K's. Once he pushed over my c/r I was pretty much sure he had AK. Though most players will play A's and K's the same. I should have probably fold none the less - or at least check/call to SD hope to get it cheap.
Hand 2 : Sticking to flush draws. I don't mind calling the c-bet as much since he could easily have hands that do not include an A. My plan was to fold the turn UI if he fire again (often they don't if they don't have the A). Sadly, I though the Q gave me loads of outs (though by that time I didn't think its good enough as it is) : 9 to the flush, 1 Q and 2 K. sure , not enough to call a PSB, but maybe enough combine my FE with my equity to make it an ok move?
Hand 3 : I did contemplate a value bet on the river but couldn't find any worse hand that will call..Am not to sure about the turn call of the c/r either.
Hand 4 and 5 - just plain ol's stupid. Though it worked in 5...
Posted Wed May 02, 2007 7:21 am GMT by kingetje
| Quote: | | On hand 1, I would have bet the pot on the flop, and likely folded to reraise. |
AA and/or KK will raise a flop bet...
Posted Wed May 02, 2007 9:28 am GMT by tame_deuces
If you aren't going to believe them after the flop, I suggest you start jamming that AK before the flop instead.
Shoving UI AK after the flop against relatively heavy action in 25NL is mostly just bad spew. Your fold equity is low, your price is high and your outs are few.
Also note that against a bet-bet flop/turn line with an ace on the board at 25NL 6-max, you're probably getting called if you semi-shove the turn on a draw, so don't. If they fold this once it isn't justifying the play in the least, just so that is said.
JJ hand is fine and an easy call.
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