A couple hands for review, 6-max NL25 |
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Posted Thu May 03, 2007 3:52 pm GMT by exit music
Here's a couple hands that I'd like some thoughts on... I'll try not to make results obvious, but I wanna know what you think - when and why.
Hand 1:
POKERSTARS GAME #9718262219: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/05/02 - 18:13:04 (ET)
Table 'Prothoon V' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: bingobe ($15 in chips)
Seat 3: astrodg ($32.15 in chips)
astrodg: posts small blind $0.10
bingobe: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to astrodg  
astrodg: calls $0.15
bingobe: checks
*** FLOP ***   
bingobe: checks
astrodg: bets $0.75
bingobe: raises $0.75 to $1.50
astrodg: calls $0.75
*** TURN *** 
bingobe: bets $2.75
astrodg: calls $2.75
*** RIVER *** 
bingobe: bets $5
astrodg: calls $5
*** SHOW DOWN ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand 2:
POKERSTARS GAME #9717621072: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/05/02 - 17:30:28 (ET)
Table 'Prothoon V' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: HugovB ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 2: shankon13 ($16.05 in chips)
Seat 3: astrodg ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 4: TryThisJack ($17.30 in chips)
Seat 5: $teven79 ($6.45 in chips)
Seat 6: Mattiouse ($21.05 in chips)
TryThisJack: posts small blind $0.10
$teven79: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to astrodg 
Mattiouse: folds
HugovB: folds
shankon13: calls $0.25
astrodg: raises $1.25 to $1.50
TryThisJack: calls $1.40
$teven79: folds
shankon13: folds
*** FLOP ***  
TryThisJack: checks
astrodg: bets $2.25
TryThisJack: calls $2.25
*** TURN *** 
TryThisJack: bets $2
astrodg: raises $14.25 to $16.25
Alright, that's all for now - keep in mind that hand #1 is head-up
Thanks
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Posted Thu May 03, 2007 4:11 pm GMT by MrDarling
hand 1 - sure its Hu but without specific reads that he is a maniac or an idiot I probably fold this on the turn. Of course it also depends what your image is. If you been trying to steal a lot, maybe there is a small chance you are ahead. But I doubt it.
Hand 2 - Sure, his turn bet indicate weakness and it seems like he want to see a cheap SD with his 9T or his 8's or what ever. But that doesn't mean he is good enough to fold his marginal hand. Unless I have reads that they can fold a pair, I try to avoid those semi bluffs
Posted Thu May 03, 2007 4:14 pm GMT by UrAteUp
Hand 1: Not sure if I would beleive the cr myself here. He really didn't look as if he had the third J or a strong AX here either. In my opinion I would put him on an Ax hand and villian was trying to scare you off of the hand.
Hand 2: Looks too suspicious for you to want to force him off of a hand. Moves like this can cost you dearly. If villian is smart he will read that board and along with your betting patterns figure if your on a stone cold bluff or not. If he figures your a agro twit...your bluff is doomed.
Posted Thu May 03, 2007 10:57 pm GMT by exit music
So I should have just called with the flushdraw? Obv. it's not a fold, right?
Posted Thu May 03, 2007 11:53 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Hand 1: I don't see any way for your hand to be good on the river, even heads up. Strongly consider folding. In any case, you basically just beat a bluff, so only call if you put him on a bluff (yes, I think any pair other than Ax constitutes a bluff). Still, this is a reasonable call if your opponent has a decent bluff frequency heads up. But make no mistake, calling here is calling to catch a bluff.
Hand 2: Raising is a good semi-bluff move, but not sure you need to bet this much. His bet pretty much looks like he's trying to block you, so raising to $10 is probably fine. Calling is also fine, because if he's blocking with a FD, you stand to make a lot if a heart falls on the river. Also, I hope this isn't your standard preflop play.
Posted Fri May 04, 2007 1:55 am GMT by exit music
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | Also, I hope this isn't your standard preflop play. |
Nope, this is 100% standard - you can't cold-call all day long when you are playing 6-max, raise to isolate and to disguise your PF raise range - honestly, this is in the higher range of hands I'd be raising with from the button after a limper. I'd raise with Q/x suited or better - i'd probably call with any decent suited connectors - and probably raise with ugly gap connectors.
Posted Fri May 04, 2007 2:10 am GMT by exit music
For the second hand, I guessed the following range...
1010-44, 10-9, 8-9, 9-J, Ax :spade: :spade:
If I was smarter I probably would have taken the mid-connectors out of his range, and if I was smarter I would have realized that almost no hand in his range could fold.
I'm glad I posted both of these hands cause they are basically the only type of mistakes I'm making at the moment.
Posted Fri May 04, 2007 2:12 am GMT by exit music
OH - not sure if anyone really looked at stack sizes, but the 2nd hand might look a little weird b/c of the bet size - the dude only had about $11 left after he bet, so I was putting him all-in and just moved the slider to a random amount.
Posted Fri May 04, 2007 2:58 am GMT by tame_deuces
H1: Paired boards are usually ground zero in HU games, those is where the edge in alot of HU matches are going to be defined, so take good care in these situations, this is where all your observations are put to the test. If he is bluffing he has most likely been turn/river double-barreling a non-semi bluff (well, or a potential gutshot I guess) on an ace high board after calling the flop bet, not alot of people do that HU.
H2: I like the idea preflop but I like it better with say 97s, QJs (THE hand to do it with really) or pocket pairs, they are also easier to play after the flop. Against this opponent I be a bit hesitant about doing it at all because he is somewhat short.
Like Diamond said you can raise less on the turn and achieve almost the same effect, which is good when you are bluffing.
Posted Fri May 04, 2007 5:41 pm GMT by exit music
| tame_deuces wrote: |
Like Diamond said you can raise less on the turn and achieve almost the same effect, which is good when you are bluffing. |
Nah, if I raise a lesser amount on the turn I am 100% pot comitted for his whole stack, so it's either all-in or call... raising to $8 is just retarded b/c he's left with $3 and I'm clearly going to the river
Posted Fri May 04, 2007 9:24 pm GMT by snoogins47
| exit music wrote: | | tame_deuces wrote: |
Like Diamond said you can raise less on the turn and achieve almost the same effect, which is good when you are bluffing. |
Nah, if I raise a lesser amount on the turn I am 100% pot comitted for his whole stack, so it's either all-in or call... raising to $8 is just retarded b/c he's left with $3 and I'm clearly going to the river |
I haven't thought much about the specific hand in question, but this reasoning is dangerous and limiting.
Even the 'obvious' situations are ones that opponents might miss. Even if it's 'obvious' you're committing yourself, they might not know that, or they might react differently to a smaller bet, etc. etc. There's really no good reason for the "if a smaller bet commits you, push your whole stack in" thing to apply in all situations, other than the fact that it's been so drilled into our heads that ignoring it feels wonky.
Posted Mon May 07, 2007 1:41 am GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
The other thing to consider in hand 2 is, how likely is he to call your all-in raise? If he's pretty likely to call, then raising is pointless here. Much better to accept the good price he's laying you and hope to hit the flush on the river.
| Quote: | | Nope, this is 100% standard - you can't cold-call all day long when you are playing 6-max, raise to isolate and to disguise your PF raise range |
I don't see much problem with cold-calling too much in position when the pot has already been opened. If the pot is unopened, I think you should usually bring it in for a raise in 6-max, but limping behind limpers, especially with your type of hand, is fine, so I don't understand the need to raise 6x the BB with your particular hand. You should not be in a big rush to play a big pot. If you want to play a slightly bigger pot with your hand, that's fine; but you'd really LIKE a weak hand to call out of position. By raising 6x the blind, you basically eliminate the chance of a weak hand calling and you instead narrow his range to mostly hands that have you in bad shape and will usually push back pretty hard if they hit the flop. Disguising your preflop range could just as easily be accomplished by occasionally cold-calling with AA or KK (and QQ) in position as well.
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