What are people thinking? |
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Posted Wed May 09, 2007 12:52 pm GMT by Eusebio
150 People MTT and I barely played any hand... I think 3 or so, and just got a tough beat flopping 2 pair, 2 guys in the pot... one cought his gutshot on the turn and the other one a flush on the river, then this comes up:
Full Tilt Poker Game #2386674001: $10 + $1 Tournament (17632206), Table 12 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:37:16 ET - 2007/05/09
Seat 1: Dan Crockett (2,435)
Seat 2: STACK KING (2,900)
Seat 3: markxu (7,900)
Seat 4: PAPPY1956MN (1,395)
Seat 5: bkingsley (835)
Seat 6: nosplshplz (3,040)
Seat 7: shanks11 (1,360)
Seat 8: raph1978 (2,390)
Seat 9: Eusebio1210 (1,280)
STACK KING posts the small blind of 30
markxu posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Eusebio1210  
PAPPY1956MN folds
bkingsley folds
nosplshplz folds
shanks11 calls 60
raph1978 calls 60
Eusebio1210 raises to 300
200 in the pot and i decided to make a move...i need chips an im steaming a bit and trying to play my image a little
Dan Crockett folds
STACK KING folds
markxu folds
shanks11 folds
raph1978 calls 240
*** FLOP ***   
raph1978 checks
Eusebio1210 bets 980, and is all in
I still want to win the pot right there... probably he has an ace, probably not... i am willing to die, in order to stay alive here 
raph1978 calls 980
Eusebio1210 shows
raph1978 shows  
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
Eusebio1210 shows a pair of Jacks
raph1978 shows two pair, Jacks and Tens
raph1978 wins the pot (2,710) with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Eusebio1210: nc
Eusebio1210 stands up
I am not ranting about a bluff going bad or my bad luck or something...
I always try to think what villain might think in a situation, but i just cant figure it out!
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Posted Wed May 09, 2007 2:01 pm GMT by raisebot
Forget what your villian might be thinking, my question is why are you trying to bluff with a board that has an Ace Jack and a Ten, and 2 spades no less? You just said how you took a bad beat from someone chasing a gutshot, and now you're bluffing on a board that holds a ton of straight draws, a flush draw, and overcards?
Posted Wed May 09, 2007 2:06 pm GMT by Kalbelgarion
I would guess:
"Crap! I meant to click fold!"
or
"Crap! Dinner's ready! Mom's going to kill me if she sees me playing poker! Better lose my chips--quick!"
or
"Well, either he has me beat or he doesn't. That means I have a 50/50 shot!"
Posted Wed May 09, 2007 2:16 pm GMT by Eusebio
| raisebot wrote: | | Forget what your villian might be thinking, my question is why are you trying to bluff with a board that has an Ace Jack and a Ten, and 2 spades no less? You just said how you took a bad beat from someone chasing a gutshot, and now you're bluffing on a board that holds a ton of straight draws, a flush draw, and overcards? |
Because I would have only a 1000 left, and the only way i could take down the pot is by betting.
Probably (or for sure) it was a bad spot to bluff, but what i am trying to understand is why tf he calls with KTos preflop and with bottompair and a gutshot on the flop if he would have only a 1000 left if i win
Posted Wed May 09, 2007 3:33 pm GMT by Gogie
I think the answer is that your bad played unmasked the villain's bad play. However, his bad play outplayed your bad play 
P.S. - The reason I think you played it bad is you should have been folding preflop with that garbage. Your stack was still large enough that you shouldn't be in a hurry to get it all in. Exercising patience at this stage of a tournament is quite often rewarded. "Steaming" (your word) is seldom rewarded. You had lots of time before you had to get antsy.
Posted Wed May 09, 2007 4:37 pm GMT by Eusebio
Well steaming wasnt meant in the traditional poker-way... tilting
@bad play
i said already that i dont even feel bad about losing in this spot... I tried to bluff... it didnt work. Thats it. If it works, people tend to say "nice bluff", if it doesnt, you look like an idiot...
but that wasnt really the point :D
I cannot understand the fact that somebody calls with KTos with a healthy stack a raise from a player that didnt play a hand... out of position!
And not enough: i am calling the allin-bet with a horrible hand that is not likely to improove...
Posted Wed May 09, 2007 5:56 pm GMT by vyni
| Kalbelgarion wrote: | | "Well, either he has me beat or he doesn't. That means I have a 50/50 shot!" |
Lol I like that.
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 1:00 am GMT by MrDarling
First, like every one said, you had tons of chips. Your M is still big enough to play real poker. No need to try to steal pots so early on with nothing.
Early on, when the blinds are small people will call a lot PF.
As for later on the hand - well he has a monster draw - a gut draw and a pair. Any Q or any T or any K will give him the NUTS (well, at least the $10 level NUTS)
So thats gotta be like he is a head, right?
Thats probably what he was thinking, and thats why you shouldn't bluff low level when they can afford it. Wait until the blinds get higher to bluff.
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 2:16 am GMT by Eusebio
Thats all clear to me... i saw the limpers made a stab and it didnt work. Its part of the game. I dont need a hand to raise, just for calling.
But again: Its not my hand I am talking about. I can have any two cards here
Probably somebody can explain to me what motivations stand behind these actions:
1)limp with KTos
2)calling a big raise (2:1) with KTos, oop, from an ultratight player
3) calling another 2:1 all-in bet from the same player on a horrible flop (in this spot, from his point of view, he has only 2 "clean" outs.. the tens!
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 4:29 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
u dont have an image, i say this is true over 70% of time
u can raise wide range of hands,
and your all in on the flop could just be an underpair
he has a bottom pair + gutshoot and has u covered so he calls
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 4:51 am GMT by Eusebio
| Jernej Zorec wrote: | | u dont have an image, i say this is true over 70% of time |
Probably because they are not paying attention, if i was in a pot i was either BB or raising, showing down just strong hands
| Jernej Zorec wrote: | | u can raise wide range of hands |
I would say the range would be: 99-AA and AK-AT
| Jernej Zorec wrote: | and your all in on the flop could just be an underpair
he has a bottom pair + gutshoot and has u covered so he calls |
covered is true, but not by much and if he loses (if i look at the range of hands, i would expect in this spot, there is only one hand that he beats..99 at the moment) he would have a M of 9 left (Blinds are going up in 2 minutes)
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 7:02 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
trust me,
i know since i used to donk of like that way too often
its a bad play but we still make them.
at least i moved on from doing such stupid plays but
every now and then i still have brainfarts like that
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 8:50 am GMT by arras
| vyni wrote: | | Kalbelgarion wrote: | | "Well, either he has me beat or he doesn't. That means I have a 50/50 shot!" |
Lol I like that. |
haha, I used that one last night in the New Orleans super satellite. I don't think people understood I was joking 
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 9:43 am GMT by MrDarling
| Eusebio wrote: | | ...Probably somebody can explain to me what motivations stand behind these actions... |
You give too much credits to the $10 MTT players..
1. They never for once think what hand you have.
2. Times out of 10 when they get raised, is by someone trying to bluff them.
3. A pair with 2 kicker is a good hand.
If any thoughts at all pass through their head is the above. Go read Doyle book. Trying to bluff stupid players is a mistake a lot of good players do.
You can't bluff a calling station.
Stop trying.
Last time I tried I was in position , can't remember my hand but flop was K89 or something. I think I had a draw.
EP tell me his weak by min betting. So I raise. he call.
Turn a blank. He check, I fire another one. He thinks long and call.
River another blank. I fire another one and he call with 87 or something.
After he won he said, I though you had at least a K.
But he still called almost all his chips.
God, I hope I learned my lesson.
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