How to deal with this sort of player? |
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Posted Wed May 09, 2007 1:47 pm GMT by AHBrownell
The past two nights I ran into "JoeyLion." This guy is a LAG player who is solely responsible for me being a negative result player at 1-2 NL on FT. A couple nights ago, he called my reraise with AsKh with 8s5s, only to get a board of 4h6s2s. This guy was loose and I felt like I was representing an overpair preflop, so when I bet him nearly all in on the flop, and he pushed, I felt I had to call, getting nearly 3:1 odds. He hit a 5 on the turn to take the pot. Goodie.
Later that night, I picked up KsJh in the BB. Joey raised in the SB and I called (something I would not do against a tight player, and rarely against a loose player). I figured heads up, in position, I might be able to hit the flop and take the pot away. The flop came T72 all spades. He bet the pot, and I shoved him allin for his stack - about $100 on the flop. He called, showing 77. 
Last night I sit down at my typical 8, 1-2 NL tables and look who it is - JoeyLion. Within ten minutes of sitting there, I see him take down AA when he shoves preflop with QQ and hits his third queen on the river. He then went on to hit about 4-5 hands in a row and quickly was up to $600. Its at this point I pick up As8s on the button. There are many callers, including JoeyLion, and I call. The flop comes Ad9s8c. Everyone checks to JoeyLion who bets the pot. I figure he's got an ace, and I want to finally get this guy so I call. The turn is the 7c. JoeyLion bets about 2/3 the pot and I raise to 3.5x his raise. He calls. On the river, a 2h hits and he pushes all in. I feel sick, but decide he might be making a play at me with a flush draw or a straight draw - I call. He shows JcTc for the nuts.
On other tables I manage to recover my losses. I get up to even when I'm about to log off when Joey raises my button from the cutoff to $7. I have AdQc. I reraise to $26. The blinds fold and Joey calls. The flop comes Jc8d2d. Joey checks, I bet $50, and Joey calls. The turn is a 9s. Joey checks and figuring if I put any more chips in I'm moving in, I decide to check and slow down. The river is a Qd. Joey bets $35, again I'm sick, but I have to call with the Ad and finally having hit my hand. Joey shows Ts8s for a Q-high straight.
Now at first I was thinking - wow this guy is lucky. What can I do if he hits his hands every time I'm in the pot with him? After thinking about it a bit more, I've decided he's not lucky. He's just outplaying me.
So, how to deal with this sort of player?
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Posted Wed May 09, 2007 2:10 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
You're outplaying yourself. You're chronically overvaluing and overbetting your hands that simply aren't that good. You kept making horrendous calls when your gut said you were beat but you justified it by "he's a loose player," ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
My advice is slow it down, only reraise preflop with truly premium hands (if he's going to call anyway), and try to make it a mostly flop game where you try and hit something worth making solid bets for and stop trying to "take the pot away" because you think he's loose. Yes, he's loose, but he seems like the type of loose player who is not likely to be bluffed, and he's shown he's capable of hitting any kind of flop.
This guy is one of two types:
1. A donkey calling-station/LAG.
2. A highly skilled loose player who is not afraid to call small raises early in the hand, but when the big money goes in later will always have a hand.
If he is Type 1, it should be easy to value bet him into oblivion as long as you stop bluffing. If he's Type 2, he's the most dangerous type of player in the game, and all you can do is try to match wits with him. But seriously, you played the hands you listed above terribly. I'm sorry.
Posted Wed May 09, 2007 3:51 pm GMT by AHBrownell
LOL Diamond! I completely agree! That was why I viewed this as such a problem, I usually am pretty solid, and I have never seen a player make me play so badly consistently before.
I like seeing flops, and that is where I usually put my advantage. I usually don't reraise with hands like AQ or call with top/bottom pair to "trap" people. I don't make big bluffs or call allins- with two overcards. This is clearly bad poker.
Basically, I let me judgment get out of whack against this guy because I saw him make a few "donkey" plays and this let me give him no credit, when I was clearly beat.
You are completely right, in most of these hands, I felt I was beat, and called anyway - which is never a good sign.
Anyway, I think you are right. Focusing on reraising with big made hands more, and making sure I have the goods when I play a big pot with this guy.
Posted Thu May 10, 2007 1:18 am GMT by MrDarling
I feel you dude :
check out this thread in the bad beats section : http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/forum/t21953/unbelievable
exactly the same kind of player, just not as smart.
And check out this thread for advise on how to play against the smart LAG : http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/forum/t21804/how-to-play-supa-like-players
which is actually opposite from what Diamond said.
Problem is, this players type are not afraid to put all the money in the middle.
Check out the hands he shows down, does he often show down rags? I doubt it - unless his bluffs are being called. Don't ever trap him, because that will give him odds to chase all those hidden draws.
When they are good they are un trappable ...
Good luck, and if you find a way to fight him, let me know.
BTW - nothing wrong with leaving the table once he sit down to your left.
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