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the untapped potential of the 180 player SNGs on stars... |
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Posted Mon May 14, 2007 11:27 pm GMT by Ensano
after rereading and old article on BTP about SNG stats... I got to thinking...
basically they state that for a good player in the 9 player SNGs your ROI should be 35% and your ITM% should be 45-50%....
but looking at my MTT stats on officialpokerrankings.com after 168 MTTs my ROI was 60% and my ITM finish is 18%.... but this is for all types of MTTs... even the 2k+ ones, so I'm assuming higher numbers could be attained...
which would be more profitable?... playing 100 180player SNGs or 100 9man SNGs?
i'm assuming that the 1 table ones would be more profitable simply because of the less time involved.. (ie 1 hr for a 1 table, 35cents/hr... and 3 hrs for a 20 table, 20cents/hr)...
if this is true then that means and ROI of more than 105% would be needed for this to be a better choice?
is that even possible?
well I'm going to do an experiment... i'm going to play 100 180player MTTs... for the 4+40 they start pretty much ever 15 min so i'm going to play 5 in a row and reduce the number of tables played as I get knocked out....
results as of may 14... day one (i'll use the couple i've already played to help me out a bit)
#of tourneys... 20
Net$... 305.12
ROI... 346.73%
ITM%... 25
ave finish... 63.4
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 1
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 9.27
any imput on whether or not i'm wasting my time would be appreciated...
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Posted Mon May 14, 2007 11:41 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
They can definitely be profitable, but 20 tournies is far too small a sample.
Posted Tue May 15, 2007 9:17 am GMT by Ensano
| xDiamond_CutteRx wrote: | | They can definitely be profitable, but 20 tournies is far too small a sample. |
oh I know they can be profitable but my question is can they be more profitable then the 1 table SNGs...
and 20 is only how many I've played so far... i'm just listing my progress so far...
Posted Tue May 15, 2007 10:03 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
ROI around 90-100 is definetly possible at 4.40 180 players for good players
Posted Tue May 15, 2007 10:28 pm GMT by Ensano
update.... day 2...
#of tourneys... 25
Net$... 283.12
ROI... 257.38%
ITM%... 20
ave finish... 65.52
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 1
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 7.49 $/hr
Posted Fri May 18, 2007 3:44 pm GMT by Ensano
update.... day 5...
#of tourneys... 30
Net$... 261.12
ROI... 197.82%
ITM%... 16.67
ave finish... 63.80
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 1
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 5.81 $/hr
Posted Sat May 19, 2007 12:01 am GMT by Ensano
update.... day 6...
#of tourneys... 35
Net$... $247.76
ROI... 160.88%
ITM%... 17.14
ave finish... 64.20
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 2
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 4.74$/hr
would've made a FT but got crippled with AK...
POKERSTARS GAME #9984725195: TOURNAMENT #50621515, $4.00+$0.40 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL X (400/800) - 2007/05/18 - 19:50:54 (ET)
Table '50621515 20' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: 177272 (16052 in chips)
Seat 2: spacemonk00 (29061 in chips)
Seat 3: Chanel45 (9636 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: Ensano (19777 in chips)
Seat 6: panzer84 (34284 in chips)
Seat 7: bearsfan68 (16731 in chips)
Seat 8: Shep147 (10402 in chips)
Seat 9: MacroZ (13801 in chips)
177272: posts the ante 50
spacemonk00: posts the ante 50
Chanel45: posts the ante 50
Ensano: posts the ante 50
panzer84: posts the ante 50
bearsfan68: posts the ante 50
Shep147: posts the ante 50
MacroZ: posts the ante 50
MacroZ: posts small blind 400
177272: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ensano  
spacemonk00: calls 800
Chanel45: folds
Ensano: raises 2400 to 3200
Chanel45 has returned
panzer84: folds
bearsfan68: folds
Shep147: calls 3200
MacroZ: folds
177272: folds
spacemonk00: calls 2400
*** FLOP ***   
spacemonk00: checks
Ensano: bets 7500
Shep147: calls 7152 and is all-in
spacemonk00: calls 7500
*** TURN *** 
spacemonk00: checks
Ensano: checks
*** RIVER *** 
spacemonk00: checks
Ensano: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
spacemonk00: shows   (a pair of Jacks)
Ensano: mucks hand
spacemonk00 collected 696 from side pot
Shep147: shows   (three of a kind, Sixes)
Shep147 collected 32656 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 33352 Main pot 32656. Side pot 696. | Rake 0
Board
Seat 1: 177272 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: spacemonk00 showed and won (696) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 3: Chanel45 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Ensano mucked
Seat 6: panzer84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: bearsfan68 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Shep147 (button) showed and won (32656) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 9: MacroZ (small blind) folded before Flop
Posted Mon May 21, 2007 11:44 am GMT by LeafsFan1122
Keep updating man, I wanna see your results.
According to my PT we've played six 4.4s together already.
Posted Mon May 21, 2007 12:24 pm GMT by ninetensuited
im scared to see the number of them that you and i have played together LF
Posted Mon May 21, 2007 12:26 pm GMT by LeafsFan1122
Don't be scared. 11 this month.
Posted Mon May 21, 2007 5:18 pm GMT by ninetensuited
that is just 180s right? total tourneys probably closer to 40 or 50, this month
Posted Tue May 22, 2007 12:59 pm GMT by Ensano
as of day 7...
#of tourneys... 39
Net$... 230.16
ROI... 134.13%
ITM%... 15.338
ave finish... 65.59
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 2
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 4.05
Posted Tue May 22, 2007 1:06 pm GMT by ninetensuited
i final tabled 2 of these last night, but couldnt win a coin at the final table AJ<44 to bust in 9th, and AK<TT for 8th
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 8:02 pm GMT by Ensano
#of tourneys... 45
Net$... 203.76
ROI... 102.91%
ITM%... 13.33
ave finish... 69.98
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 2
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 3.30$/hr
still in the black since I've started my experiment but I can't for the life of me seem to get ITM... don't know exactly what it is yet but I'm narrowing down the variables...
I'm starting to think that I might be playing too many tables at a time, but if I play 1-2 at a time I find I try to get too fancy with the fish in the first few lvls... right now it's 4 tables and playing straightforeward TAG for the first hr then losening up my game... usually if I can get a decent stack and make it to first break then I usually make a good run for at least the final 3 tables...
44.42% of the time I'm out around the first break...
I think to acheive my goal I'm going to need to bring this number down...
Posted Sun May 27, 2007 4:23 am GMT by ninetensuited
Joe, ive found that playing loose passive in the first 3 levels and then tightening up is very profitable in these.
just something that might help
Posted Mon May 28, 2007 12:45 am GMT by Ensano
#of tourneys... 50
Net$... $181.76
ROI... 82.62%
ITM%... 12
ave finish... 72.60
1st... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 2
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 2.76$/hr/b
Posted Wed May 30, 2007 12:11 pm GMT by Ensano
PokerStars Tournament #51551623, No Limit Hold'em
Buy-In: $4.00/$0.40
180 players
Total Prize Pool: $720.00
Tournament started - 2007/05/29 - 18:19:54 (ET)
Dear Ensano,
You finished the tournament in 2nd place.
A $144.00 award has been credited to your Real Money account.
You earned 154.48 tournament leader points in this tournament.
For information about our tournament leader board, see our web site at
http://www.pokerstars.com/tlb_tournament_rankings.html
Congratulations!
Thank you for participating.
#of tourneys... 56
Net$... $299.36
ROI... 121.49%
ITM%... 12.50
ave finish... 75.09
1st... 1
2nd... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 2
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 4.13$/hr
here's the hand that more or less lost me first... I try to gain a tighter image at first heads up and it was working so i should've known I could find a better spot to get my money in...
too many hands here have me behind...
POKERSTARS GAME #10174837084: TOURNAMENT #51551623, $4.00+$0.40 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XV (2000/4000) - 2007/05/29 - 22:13:16 (ET)
Table '51551623 20' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 6: Ensano (136604 in chips)
Seat 7: 18HOLEnACE (133396 in chips)
Ensano: posts the ante 200
18HOLEnACE: posts the ante 200
Ensano: posts small blind 2000
18HOLEnACE: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ensano 
Ensano: raises 8000 to 12000
18HOLEnACE: raises 121196 to 133196 and is all-in
Ensano: calls 121196
*** FLOP ***   
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
18HOLEnACE: shows   (three of a kind, Threes)
Ensano: shows (high card King)
18HOLEnACE collected 266792 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 266792 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 6: Ensano (button) (small blind) showed and lost with high card King
Seat 7: 18HOLEnACE (big blind) showed and won (266792) with three of a kind, Threes
Posted Wed May 30, 2007 3:46 pm GMT by Jernej Zorec
considering 30bb stack probably true that u can wait a bit more
depending on how often he did this
Posted Thu May 31, 2007 2:06 pm GMT by Ensano
nothing really special... got close to the money in 2 (26,27)... took some bad beats like getting AI 3 ways with KK vs AKo and QQ... flop brought an A... what can you do really...
#of tourneys... 62
Net$... $272.96
ROI... 100.06%
ITM%... 11.29
ave finish... 75.58
1st... 1
2nd... 1
3rd... 1
5th... 1
6th... 1
10-18th... 2
Winrate/$ for 1 at a time..... 3.46$/hr
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