SC - is this an auto call? |
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Posted Fri May 18, 2007 3:14 pm GMT by MrDarling
I've decided to start playing more suited connector, even in raised pots.
So the first call is standard (I guess)
Then SB reraise - I know he most have a big hand (though I'm new to the table)
But his raise is small, and every one call. And it less then 10% of my stack (just been reading Super System again)
so I have the odds to call, right?
Full Tilt Poker Game #2454226462: Table Pomeroy (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:07:48 ET - 2007/05/18
Seat 1: jpgringo ($29.80)
Seat 2: teamhonda3 ($23.25)
Seat 3: Pomar ($27.85)
Seat 4: phish22head ($21.25)
Seat 5: blackjustin77 ($15.60)
Seat 6: hero ($24.65)
teamhonda3 posts the small blind of $0.10
Pomar posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero  
phish22head calls $0.25
blackjustin77 raises to $0.75
hero calls $0.75
jpgringo folds
teamhonda3 raises to $2.50
Pomar folds
phish22head calls $2.25
blackjustin77 calls $1.75
Hero?
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Posted Fri May 18, 2007 3:37 pm GMT by ninetensuited
fold preflop
Posted Fri May 18, 2007 3:48 pm GMT by supafrey
easy, easy, easy call.
Posted Fri May 18, 2007 3:48 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
No, not an autocall. 10% might be a reasonable investment for pocket pairs, but I think the implied odds with SC's are a bit lower, primarily because many of the strong hands they flop are draws, not made hands (in terms of equity, this means that with PP's, your equity on the flop is very easy to estimate, usually either very high or very low, whereas with SC's, many times you find that your equity is hazy, often in the 30's somewhere).
Not saying this is an autofold, either. It's quite situational. But I would hardly say that this is one of those always type plays, because it depends ENORMOUSLY on how opponents play after the flop so you can estimate your implied odds. Given that there has been a reraise preflop, I think it's safe to assume that the pot will be pretty big, and that the bets on the flop will probably be pretty sizable. Unless you flop really big, your hand just can't stand that kind of action. So even though it looks like you're getting pretty favorable odds, you probably aren't.
Posted Fri May 18, 2007 3:50 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| supafrey wrote: | | easy, easy, easy call. |
Considering we have position, I'm more inclined to agree, but I don't think it's quite as easy.
Edit: for someone who plays as well after the flop as supa, this is probably an easy call. But if you're just learning the nuances of suited connectors, this type of play can get you in sticky situations.
Posted Fri May 18, 2007 9:53 pm GMT by exit music
call, even if you don't know how to play suited connectors... just fold unless you flop a straight or flush
Posted Fri May 18, 2007 10:26 pm GMT by tame_deuces
That's something like a 2% chance in total of flopping a straight or a flush with with an SC. Not good enough odds on that alone.
If we add up two pair, trips, boat straight and flush flopping on an SC we end up on something like 5% of the time, and you'll not win all those times either (as DC said, equity here can be hazy). Its easy to see why it is unprofitable to call based on this alone.
So, simply put you somehow need to be able to play draws profitably for SCs to be worth it in a vacuum here. If that is implied odds, pot odds or fold equity or whatnot isn't important.
Posted Sat May 19, 2007 1:39 am GMT by MrDarling
So you are telling me the odds of flopping a set are better then the odds of flopping two pairs or better with SC?
Wow, I almost never call re-raises with a pocket pair, unless they are mini reraises , like in this case.
Posted Sat May 19, 2007 2:37 am GMT by tame_deuces
| MrDarling wrote: | | So you are telling me the odds of flopping a set are better then the odds of flopping two pairs or better with SC? |
Yes.
Around 1/5th of the time you'll flop an ok draw. So the determining factor in SCs in raised pots is pretty much how good you are at playing draws against your opponents (or how badly they play etc), not how good you are at playing a flopped hand.
Some light thinking on the subject and it should also become evident why this means SCs plays much worse OOP than pocket pairs. A thought to consider.
Posted Mon May 21, 2007 6:32 am GMT by MrDarling
here is how you play SC bad,OOP in a raised pot :
btw, the guy floated me a couple of times so I decided to play back...
Here is my thought process if any :
calling PF - They are soooted.
Leading flop - well, I got me a nice gut draw. And chances are he missed any way.
Turn - cool, got more outs. And maybe the a will scare him
River - miracle. have no idea what he has lets bet smallish.
Full Tilt Poker Game #2475381786: Table Del Mue (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:19:56 ET - 2007/05/21
Seat 3: mr ladrao ($21.30)
Seat 4: hero ($25)
Seat 5: King_yahtz ($22.70)
Seat 6: dm124 ($25)
mr ladrao posts the small blind of $0.10
hero posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero  
King_yahtz raises to $0.70
dm124 folds
mr ladrao folds
hero calls $0.45
*** FLOP ***   
hero bets $1.25
King_yahtz calls $1.25
*** TURN *** 
hero bets $2.10
King_yahtz calls $2.10
*** RIVER *** 
hero bets $5.25
King_yahtz calls $5.25
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hero shows (a flush, Ace high)
King_yahtz mucks
hero wins the pot ($17.80) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
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