Posted Wed May 23, 2007 2:31 am GMT by MrDarling
I recently bumped into the all ICM concept.
I understand the basic idea of it : You decision PF (especially considering push/fold situation) should be based on probable result compared to your share in the prize pool.
However, how do you actually use it while playing in a 15 second decision game?
Any tips , thoughts or ideas are welcome.
Danny
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Posted Wed May 23, 2007 3:55 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
well mostly is used to analyze the play after u play,
and more situations u analyze easier it will be for u when u get into same situation next time
i still think this is one of best articles on how to do that
http://www.zeejustin.com/articles.php?art_id=9
Posted Wed May 23, 2007 6:06 am GMT by MrDarling
How do you use ICM when the blinds are high compare to the stacks and you are far from the bubble?
for example, in the live S&G I play, by the second level the average stack is 20XBB. by the 4th levels its 7XBB. And usually most players are still in play (18-27 players)
Posted Wed May 23, 2007 6:50 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
as far as i know ICM is mostly for bubble play
and difficult to calculate for many spots
during early rounds, pokerstove and ranges along with other tendences comes into account when making a decision.
ofcourse u cant do pokerstove while u play, but look through HH afterwards,
try to put him on a range, run it in pokerstove and try to determine best action
look for part1 of that article
Posted Wed May 23, 2007 5:30 pm GMT by snoogins47
ICM is just an attempt at a mathematical model for what chips are actually worth in Real$$ terms, and we're all pretty well aware of how much TCEV disconnects from $EV in certain parts of tournaments. As mentioned, you really can't think/calculate fast enough to use it prior to making decisions, but playing around with it will help you think about tournament decisions much more effectively and you'll begin to see that even when you can't calculate it, there are plenty of 'trends' that will come into play in a lot of real game spots.
ICM is a very simple model, that doesn't take blind sizes, positions, structure, etc. into account. There have been some attempts to add these factors in and alter the result (SNG Powertools comes to mind, I think that's pretty much one of the main calculating tools it uses: ICM with concessions for blinds and whatnot) but your second question is pretty much unanswerable... or, the answer is: you can't. ICM is just a model for the value of chips given the total # of chips in play, and the payout structure. That's it.
In theory it's not all that hard to allow for these weaknesses with some simple poker-tournament common sense: blinds are about to eat you up, so you're more apt to push now in a marginal spot, etc. Also all the fuzziness of course of how our stack sizes and chip position affect our edge and how everybody else plays...
Jernej is right that early in tournaments, TCEV tends to be significantly closer to $EV in these models. They tend to only diverge significantly as you approach the bubble, and tend to stay that way from there on out.
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