Posted Wed May 23, 2007 11:21 pm GMT by finalhonor
*********** # 105 **************
PokerStars Game #10052156188: Tournament #50508180, $5+$0 Hold'em No Limit -
Level XII (1000/2000) - 2007/05/22 - 16:17:48 (ET)
Table '50508180 5' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Tania 24 (51208 in chips)
Seat 3: finalhonor (72919 in chips)
Seat 4: Brandonbilly (80744 in chips)
Seat 5: antnee12 (23902 in chips)
Seat 6: NibbeSP (24020 in chips)
Seat 7: ifruma (77101 in chips)
Seat 8: SCAINS2 (116135 in chips)
Tania 24: posts the ante 100
finalhonor: posts the ante 100
Brandonbilly: posts the ante 100
antnee12: posts the ante 100
NibbeSP: posts the ante 100
ifruma: posts the ante 100
SCAINS2: posts the ante 100
ifruma: posts small blind 1000
SCAINS2: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to finalhonor  
Tania 24: folds
finalhonor: raises 4000 to 6000
Brandonbilly: folds
antnee12: folds
NibbeSP: calls 6000
ifruma: folds
SCAINS2: folds
*** FLOP ***   
finalhonor: bets 4000
NibbeSP: raises 13920 to 17920 and is all-in
Player is loose agressive, liked to push people around.
What do i do in this situation?
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Posted Thu May 24, 2007 12:32 am GMT by MrDarling
Fold PF.
Don't c-bet.
Fold flop.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 1:48 am GMT by AHBrownell
When you are deciding to continuation bet do the following:
1) Think about your opponent's range of hands. If your opponent's range likely connected with the flop, its a bad time to bluff.
2) Think about the range you are representing to your opponent. If your opponent is likely to think you connected with the flop, its a good time to bluff. If your opponent is not likely to think you connected with the flop, its a bad time to bluff.
And I suppose...
3) Look at your cards. Is your hand likely the best hand?
The first two things should determine if you bet most of the time. However, 3 may give you a reason to value bet or check/raise or check/call or check/fold.
In other words, play your opponent more than your cards. In this case, your raise represents big cards or an overpair. This board is terrible for the range your opponent puts you on. Similarly your opponent's range likely includes lots of middle cards 7-J or stronger hands (like pocket pairs). This flop suggests that its a good time to let the hand go if you don't have a monster. You have 33. Let it go. 
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 7:58 am GMT by ninetensuited
the real issue here is, why are we raising 3xbb w/ 33 in Early Position? thats the first mistake.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 8:23 am GMT by Dave B
I dont see raising w/ 33 as a mistake.
I guess I dont know where you are in the tournament. You look fairly deep, at this point, I prefer to wait for a really big hand to play. But if you are near the bubble, this might be a decent spot to take down some blinds.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 8:27 am GMT by ninetensuited
there are 7 people left in the table, im assuming that it is either final table or between 14 and 16 people left, i could be wrong though, im not saying the raise w/ 33 is wrong, im saying the size of the raise is wrong. IMO if your going to raise w/ 33 OOP, it needs to be a larger than average raise.
Where is Ciso when you need him for mtt questions
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 12:25 pm GMT by Phil14312
Preflop I like, there is a better than average chance to take down the blinds. However, alarm bells are going off when he calls a raise like that preflop. Its generally trapping with a big pair to call off 1/4 of his stack. I think he called preflop to trap and thats consistent with his flop play.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 12:39 pm GMT by ninetensuited
phil, lets not forget this is a 5$ mtt, where the stacks are deep and the donks are plentiful, he is calling a preflop here w/ KT, KJ, KQ, QJ, possibly JT and any medium PP, he is reraising w/ AK/AQ, possibly AJ. This flop could have hit him many ways. I still stand by what i say when i said fold or raise more preflop
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 2:44 pm GMT by Phil14312
Stacks aren't exactly deep, I think only one person at the table has 30x BB, and at least two from my quick look, including the only caller, had 10x BB. Hero has 20x BB, you shouldn't be raising more if you don't want a caller...you start to become transparent.
Raise and usually take the blinds. But on that flop after villain raises all-in, he probably either has you crushed with a pair, overpair, two-pair, or set. Or, he has something like a flush draw with two overs, that you are still behind to.
Gid, do you really want to raise to 8k or 9k and have a short push for 22k, making it 14:25 or a little less than 2:1? Now what?
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 5:19 pm GMT by ninetensuited
phil, i agree with what your saying, but if he pushes for 22k or so, you are calling there because you are probably ahead, the majority of the time the SS is pushing w/ Ace high, there isnt a big difference between 6k and 8k, if he pushes for 22k on a 6k raise and you call, you would call it ona 8k raise and vise versa
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 6:26 pm GMT by Phil14312
| ninetensuited wrote: | | phil, i agree with what your saying, but if he pushes for 22k or so, you are calling there because you are probably ahead, the majority of the time the SS is pushing w/ Ace high, there isnt a big difference between 6k and 8k, if he pushes for 22k on a 6k raise and you call, you would call it ona 8k raise and vise versa |
If shortstack pushes calling with 33 is standard?
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 8:23 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
| MrDarling wrote: | Fold PF.
Don't c-bet.
Fold flop. |
Weak sauce.
I think it was played fine. Folding the flop is usually best here, but you're getting a decent price. Problem is, if you are behind, it's damn hard to catch up, so he needs to bluff pretty frequently to justify calling his all-in. But I love the PF raise and the C-bet; you have the stack, so use it. You need to pick up chips whenever you can.
The only problem I can see is you are betting less than 1/3 the pot, which might look weak if this is out of the ordinary for you; I take a lot of small stabs at pots, so it's hard to say if small bets are strong or weak. Depending on your pattern, that may or may not give away information you don't want to.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 9:05 pm GMT by ninetensuited
phil, it depends just how short we are calling the short stack, if its less than 10% of your stack, its standard to call with any 2
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 9:15 pm GMT by Phil14312
| ninetensuited wrote: | | phil, it depends just how short we are calling the short stack, if its less than 10% of your stack, its standard to call with any 2 |
If he started the hand with 22K i'm talking about. Sorry if we are threadjacking.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 9:35 pm GMT by ninetensuited
ok, we werent on the same page then, i was talking about playing against SS in general. i guess i should have clarified that, sorry
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 12:44 am GMT by MrDarling
First lets get one thing clear, I'm a horrible MTT player.
Now, I do not mine stealing from UTG occasionally but once you get called and your are OOP there are really not many flops you are going to like to see.
Of course it all depends on your image, the way you played and the way the rest of the table play. Your c-bet is extremely weak (smaller then your PF raise) and unless you did it before and showed down aggression / good hands it shows your weakness.
Now I really don't see how you can call this. The only thing you beat is a bluff.
Can a MOD move this to the MTT board so we can get Ciso opinion on this one?
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 1:42 am GMT by MrDarling
Now that its been move, we all a wait some clever MTT God's opinion
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 10:10 am GMT by finalhonor
Sorry Guys I'm on vacation, so i haven't had time to reply but here is the rest of the hand. Let me know what you think, be back in a few days.
Thanks
finalhonor
P.S Yes i know i got lucky with the flush, but so did he when he hit his jack, i personally think it was the right move.
*********** # 105 **************
PokerStars Game #10052156188: Tournament #50508180, $5+$0 Hold'em No Limit -
Level XII (1000/2000) - 2007/05/22 - 16:17:48 (ET)
Table '50508180 5' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Tania 24 (51208 in chips)
Seat 3: finalhonor (72919 in chips)
Seat 4: Brandonbilly (80744 in chips)
Seat 5: antnee12 (23902 in chips)
Seat 6: NibbeSP (24020 in chips)
Seat 7: ifruma (77101 in chips)
Seat 8: SCAINS2 (116135 in chips)
Tania 24: posts the ante 100
finalhonor: posts the ante 100
Brandonbilly: posts the ante 100
antnee12: posts the ante 100
NibbeSP: posts the ante 100
ifruma: posts the ante 100
SCAINS2: posts the ante 100
ifruma: posts small blind 1000
SCAINS2: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to finalhonor
Tania 24: folds
finalhonor: raises 4000 to 6000
Brandonbilly: folds
antnee12: folds
NibbeSP: calls 6000
ifruma: folds
SCAINS2: folds
*** FLOP ***
finalhonor: bets 4000
NibbeSP: raises 13920 to 17920 and is all-in
finalhonor: calls 13920
*** TURN *** 
*** RIVER *** 
*** SHOW DOWN ***
finalhonor: shows (a flush, Jack high)
NibbeSP: shows   (a pair of Jacks)
finalhonor collected 51540 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 51540 | Rake 0
Board
Seat 1: Tania 24 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: finalhonor showed and won (51540) with a flush, Jack high
Seat 4: Brandonbilly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: antnee12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: NibbeSP (button) showed and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 7: ifruma (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: SCAINS2 (big blind) folded before Flop
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 10:55 am GMT by ninetensuited
your right, you got lucky with the flush, but lets analyze this for just a minute. your c-bet was pretty weak, unless you were going for a probe bet. When he reraises you all in a red flag should go up saying, this is a very draw heavy board. does he have 2 hearts, 2 overs a OESD? A GSSD? higher pair, any pair has you beat, as it is you are only beating a bluff. some people would say that the call is good, but i dont konw. your getting just over 2:1. tough play to make, and it would be very player dependant, what kind of read did you have on him? nice catch anywho
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 3:00 pm GMT by Casey ATB
"What shoud I do?" was the question, right?
Take up golf (commonly called "Oh, sh*t." 
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 4:52 pm GMT by ninetensuited
agree with casey!
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