My first squeeze attempt (cash game) |
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Posted Thu May 24, 2007 5:45 pm GMT by MrDarling
Just won a pot with A's. and decided this was a good time to attempt the squeeze.
Didn't work. though I sucked out on the end 
Did I raise to little PF?
Full Tilt Poker Game #2500610273: Table Huntly (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:47:04 ET - 2007/05/24
Seat 1: imchinese ($27.90)
Seat 3: 13Arod ($43.45)
Seat 4: hero ($56.85)
Seat 5: SooStacks ($25.60)
Seat 6: The ILL Steez ($22.90)
13Arod posts the small blind of $0.10
hero posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero  
SooStacks folds
SooStacks stands up
The ILL Steez raises to $0.85
imchinese folds
13Arod calls $0.75
hero raises to $2.80
The ILL Steez calls $1.95
13Arod has 15 seconds left to act
13Arod folds
*** FLOP ***   
hero bets $4.25
The ILL Steez has 15 seconds left to act
The ILL Steez calls $4.25
*** TURN *** 
hero checks
The ILL Steez checks
*** RIVER *** 
hero checks
The ILL Steez checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hero shows (two pair, Queens and Threes)
The ILL Steez mucks
hero wins the pot ($14.25) with two pair, Queens and Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.95 | Rake $0.70
Board:
Seat 1: imchinese (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: 13Arod (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: hero (big blind) showed and won ($14.25) with two pair, Queens and Threes
Seat 5: SooStacks didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: The ILL Steez mucked   - two pair, Sixes and Threes
Can you believe he called my PF reraise with 6's AND my c-bet?
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Posted Thu May 24, 2007 5:55 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Technically I'd say it isn't a squeeze untill it goes bet-raise-squeeze which didn't happen here. But the thought of doing that _preflop_ as a bluff in a cashgame usually makes my head hurt anyway.
And nice lucksacking out of a sticky situation. 
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 6:24 pm GMT by Phil14312
I think squeezing is more a play when stacks are small (10-20 bb) instead of usually fairly deep cash games.
And I thought the action went bet, call, big raise (thats the squeeze).
I don't think your raise was big enough and I don't think I would try such a thing with these deep stacks.
You are basically hoping the initial raiser raised on the lighter range of their hands, the caller is weak because he just called, and you are strong because of the big raise, increasing your fold equity in an already big size pot.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 8:14 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
Raise too small? I don't think you should have been reraising out of the SB anyway. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is picking up that $2 in the pot really that important?
I don't get the point of squeezing "just because you can."
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 9:57 pm GMT by crack
I agree, I don't really see the point of this play, especially at these stakes where it's going to go unnoticed and they will not understand what you done anyway.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 11:14 pm GMT by exit music
ugh.... what/?????
You literally played every street terribly, especially preflop - and especially on the river.
Posted Thu May 24, 2007 11:51 pm GMT by MrDarling
In 6 max there are a lot of raises. And most of them are not with premium hands.
I think I made 2 mistakes in this situation. the first one is you have to know who you can squeeze. You really can't squeeze someone who will call PF with 6's and then call a c-bet. The reraise suppose to represent a big pair.
My second but slightly smaller mistake is the size of the raise. I think for a squeeze to be successful the reraise should be much bigger.
Though $2 is 8XBB , I do agree risking 16XBB just to gain that might be a little foolish.
In this case it did great for my image. Later on I flat called villain raise with AK, spiked a K and manage to get a lot more value out of it..
Squeezing, is same like reraising light. Against the right villain, with the extra dead money in the pot it can be very lucrative. But it is not something I'll do often.
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 8:15 am GMT by Gogie
I think what you did on the flop is a semi-bluff, not a squeeze. You had outs (overcards) and you might actually have been ahead on the flop (not likely, but possible) but it certainly wasn't a squeeze play.
You have to have 3 players in the hand to utilize a squeeze play. The following is a perfect example of how the squeeze play works (from PokerPages.com, Poker Articles, Nick Eisel: Executing the Squeeze, full article here http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/nick-eisel18.htm):
| Quote: | | While I've performed many a squeeze play in my tournament career, the best example I can possibly give actually was done by Dan Harrington at the Final Table of the 2004 World Series of Poker. Those of you who watched the taping on television will surely remember the hand where Josh Arieh raised under the gun with K9o and Greg Raymer called in early-middle position with A2 of clubs. Dan read the situation perfectly and put both players on weak hands and elected to make a giant reraise with the trash holding of 62o and win a nice pot for his efforts. So why did this play work you ask? Well, Dan was aware that in order to attempt such a gutsy play, a number of requisites must first be true. |
I suggest you read the full article; it's well worth it.
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 8:49 am GMT by gumbie
This is awful MrD
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 9:44 am GMT by MrDarling
Gogie , That's exactly what I attempted to do PreFlop.
But like I stated, my reraise is probably to small, and worse I chose a bad villain to do it against. Especially since I wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary on the table yet. I played pretty tight so far.
My flop c-bet OOP was just another attempt to win the pot. If indeed he had a small-mid pocket pair (which make the most sense) he should fold it if he didn't hit a set, IF he has any sense. Sadly for him he didn't. I've been squeezed many of times in this levels at $25NL , and I'm the kind of player that this move works great against.
I will fold my pocket pairs to a decent reraise if I do not have odds to chase a set.
Gumbie, do you never Squeeze?
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 9:59 am GMT by AHBrownell
Here's the thing with this sort of play. I do a large reraise all the time, but its not a squeeze play persay, as much as a normal raise to get my opponents to fold.
I will liberally reraise late position aggressive raisers with hands that I'd often dump against extremely tight or tight/passive players. For example if I'm in the SB/BB with an AQ or AJ or 99 I will occassionally reraise a cutoff or button raise by the looser or more aggressive player in order to get them to fold. I make this play when I have AA too. Often the pot will include a caller, and this just makes my raise bigger. However, I'd rarely make this play with KQ and if I did I'd be less likely to do it against a raiser + caller, and more likely against a single raiser...
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 10:07 am GMT by gumbie
There should be reasons for every play you make.
I couldn't think of a reason for making a squeeze play at nl25 ever.
If you were playing higher I'd say the money in the pot isn't worth winning (small original raise, only one caller).And your raise is only a 10% of stack raise and the chances of this guy folding are about 0, and ur gonna be OOP for the rest of the hand.
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 10:24 am GMT by MrDarling
Thanks for all the reply guys. I am not protecting my play, just trying to understand, think out of the box and learn some aggressive moves.
first, I didn't reraise due to the strength of my hand. I easily muck KQ away from the blinds and even from the BTN if there is a raise in front. Villain 1 did raise a lot PF. and villain 2 did call with anything. And I do mean anything. He was very loose PF but tight and a thinking player post. So I knew he was not going to call a reraise.
And this is the same amount I'd raise if I had A's. When I reraise I usually raise to around a total of 3X their raise. Maybe its too little as it is. Maybe my reraise should be that they have to put 3Xtime their raise. so if they raise 1XBB my raise should be 4XBB instead my usual 3XBB...
So do you call such a reraise if you have small pair? You really have no odds chasing a set unless you are sure you stack me every time, right?
| gumbie wrote: | There should be reasons for every play you make.
...If you were playing higher I'd say the money in the pot isn't worth winning (small original raise, only one caller) |
That's a good point. So why do we often raise with rags from position? Aren't we risking 4-6XBB just to win 1.5XBB?
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 11:01 am GMT by suitedaces84
| MrDarling wrote: | | That's a good point. So why do we often raise with rags from position? Aren't we risking 4-6XBB just to win 1.5XBB? |
It's not like you're "risking 4-6XBB just to win 1.5XBB" because when the "steal" doesn't work preflop you'll often steal the pot postflop or make the best hand. The preflop raised from LP without a strong hand is used to setup the rest of the hand. Think about EV of a preflop raise in NL. You'll realize that even with a large edge it's only ~1-3bb; that's practically meaningless. But the raise is still important because it sets the stakes for the remainder of the hand. This is why you'd raise less frequently with bad position--you don't want to increase the stakes of the hand if you're OOP. That is, by raising to 4xbb you stand to profit very little directly. But you nearly quadruple the stakes of the hand which can be quite profitable.
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 11:11 am GMT by AHBrownell
The way I always (okay not always, but 90% of the time at least) is to raise at least the pot when I raise. So if there are 2 limpers in front of me, I'm going to raise to 5.5 X BB. If there is a raise in front of me (say to 3 X BB), I raise to about 10-12 X BB. If there is a raise and a call in front of me, I'm raising to 14-16 X BB.
Basically, the idea is that if you pick up the pot preflop, you win the pot without any risk. We recently had a discussion on here where a few players said that I was wrong in slowplaying certain hands preflop (AA, KK). I now disagree with the posts I made at the time. Its better to repop it, almost every single time. I especially like to reraise with hands like AK/AQ (the AQ only against certain opponents) and when I'm in the blinds because winning the pot without a flop is rarely a bad thing.
So, in terms of your idea here MrD, its a good one. Being the player at the table who makes these scary reraises is something that I think makes me a lot of money. AND if you get called, a half-pot sized bet nearly always wins the pot after the flop. When you make a reraise ppl put you on AA or KK and it doesn't take much to get them to fold their weaker hands. Hands like AK and AQ have become much more profitable for me since I started making these larger preflop raises and reraises. I highly recommend doing it - I just think if you are going to do it, bet an amount that will get your opponents to fold all but the best hands AND will encourage them to put you on aces or kings. If you do that, then all the times they do call, a small bet will make them fold almost every time on the flop.
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 am GMT by MrDarling
Probably my reraises are too small.
Maybe that's why I hate reraising from the blinds (even with AK)..
and suited, of course you are right. when we are in position we stand a higher chance of winning the pot. So by raising in position we increase our over all value. Good Point.
Posted Fri May 25, 2007 11:36 am GMT by exit music
Some interesting points throughout this thread. My observation shows a couple of big mistakes in your thought process.
-This is a terrible situation for a squeeze. There is less than $2 in the pot to win.
-You are offering amazing implied odds for him to flop a set and stack you. Even if you showed me AA preflop, I'd make that call every day with 66 because he's got position, and he'll probably stack you if he flops a set.
-No pressure!!! The point of a squeeze play is to put your opponent in a really tough situation - 2:1 for his entire stack, for example - in this hand, you made it pretty tough for your opponent to play this hand poorly - and it shows, he didn't make a single mistake. You are the one who put money in twice with the worse hand, and checked when you made the best hand.
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 12:53 am GMT by exit music
POKERSTARS GAME #10106716780: TOURNAMENT #51233186, $6.00+$0.50 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL IV (50/100) - 2007/05/26 - 00:48:41 (ET)
Table '51233186 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: fetterhoff39 (980 in chips)
Seat 2: astrodg (1345 in chips)
Seat 3: Knutlee (2910 in chips)
Seat 5: ifold56 (3215 in chips)
Seat 7: Warlockem (2110 in chips)
Seat 9: Ahlis_x (2940 in chips)
fetterhoff39: posts small blind 50
astrodg: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to astrodg 
Knutlee: folds
ifold56: raises 100 to 200
Warlockem: folds
Ahlis_x: folds
fetterhoff39: calls 150
astrodg: raises 1145 to 1345 and is all-in
ifold56: folds
fetterhoff39: folds
astrodg collected 600 from pot
astrodg: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 600 | Rake 0
Seat 1: fetterhoff39 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: astrodg (big blind) collected (600)
Seat 3: Knutlee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ifold56 folded before Flop
Seat 7: Warlockem folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Ahlis_x (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 8:46 am GMT by tame_deuces
I can't for the life of me figure out how you are going to put alot of pressure on anyone preflop in a cashgame by bluff-raising when the other action has gone bet-call, unless your playing effective short stacks or by raising a silly amount that makes the whole thing unprofitable by pot odds.
As for cash squeeze play, here is a absolutely brilliant example of how you can do it:
Seat 1: AvesUIUC ( $87.65 )
Seat 5: Superfish4 ( $23.50 )
Seat 6: pavelz ( $59.65 )
Seat 7: tame_ducks ( $25.40 )
Seat 2: Snoogins47 ( $56.20 )
Seat 8: Foxbat3 ( $28.25 )
Seat 4: GeorgeWPush_ ( $25.25 )
pavelz posts small blind $0.25.
tame_ducks posts big blind $0.50.
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to tame_ducks  
Snoogins47: I probably should've called
Superfish4: 23o good?
Foxbat3 folds.
AvesUIUC calls $0.50.
Snoogins47 calls $0.50.
GeorgeWPush_ folds.
Superfish4 folds.
pavelz: no way
Snoogins47: way good
pavelz: i actually said on vent
pavelz calls $0.25.
tame_ducks checks.
** Dealing Flop **   
pavelz: that if you called
pavelz: you were retarded
pavelz checks.
Superfish4: i had AJo
tame_ducks bets $2.
GeorgeWPush_: y wont anyone call my raises 
Snoogins47: I did too, heh
AvesUIUC raises $6.
pavelz: why didn't you show?!
Superfish4: i hit the wrong butt
Snoogins47 is all-In.
(And ofcourse he is bluffing, but I still can't call. That's what a good squeeze does, regardless of what action led to it).
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 5:17 pm GMT by crack
Good old thp games, i miss them.
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 5:35 pm GMT by snoogins47
I didn't get called there did I? I'm curious as to what I had, though I guess it almost had to be 57 or 78. That's assuming I wasn't randomly bored, of course. Who knows. We need to do more of that nonsense.
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 6:12 pm GMT by MrDarling
To be honest I do not see the difference if you do it post flop or pre flop.
IF the players are good enough to fold hands that are easily dominated and fold hands that have no odds at drawing, then this play will work PF as well.
Like stated above by everyone, the size of the reraise have to be enough that it rubs the PF raiser and the caller from their odds.
We all know that when we rereaise with A's usually everyone fold. So in principle we should be able to do it once and a while with crap as well.
I haven't done it since, but I've been reraising more often from the blinds after a raise and a call. My range is AJ+ and 7's+ . Often every one fold and we get a nice pot. When they do call, you still have a decent hand to fight the flop. The decent players usually fold AK to a reraise, and the bad one will push with it. So you are not easily dominated. And as for the pairs. Again, you might get mid pockets to fold. The big one will reraise you and then you can fold.
in 6 max, not every PF raise means a real big hand. People will raise with any Axs, SC, PP, two face cards etc.. so it is much easier to take them off those hands.
I still do not do it often.
Post flop squeeze is an idea I haven't played with yet, and am pretty sure will be hard to get to work in the micro. As you always get players who loves to call AI with 3PNK....
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 8:02 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| snoogins47 wrote: | | I guess it almost had to be 57 or 78. |
Ding ding.
And you probably had Aves beat.
One of the hardest folds of my NL career. I guess that says something about the play in the old THP games.
Posted Sat May 26, 2007 10:07 pm GMT by exit music
Get away from the term "squeeze play" and think more along the lines of "poker play." Don't try to make a play and then squeeze a definition around it, make a play, think about why it worked or didn't work, think about how your opponents played the hand, think about how you could play the hand better, and move on.
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