Posted Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:53 pm GMT by Markstorm
I'm new to poker, mostly playing free games online to practice. When I play cash games, I am usually comfortable with my decisions - regardless of how good or bad they are, at least I know why I did something. Free games tend to be very different though. People play very loosely, so that raising 7,8, or even 15x the BB will still get lots of calls.
My question is, in loose passive games where everyone will basically call anything, am I right to believe that premium hands like AA-QQ are actually less desirable than strong draw hands like 10Js? Would it be correct to play high pocket pairs as if they were low pairs, trying to hit a set instead of putting lots of money in pre-flop?
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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:12 pm GMT by Ensano
no... you are not correct....
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:13 pm GMT by tame_deuces
You are not right to believe so. The big hands will win less times but they will win more chips overall.
This is because 80% of 100 is 80, whereas 50% of 400 is 200. Lower chance to win, but more money in the pot = bigger profit anyway.
Oh, and there is no such thing as free poker, poker is when the money gets on the table. 
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:18 pm GMT by Gunslinger
| Markstorm wrote: | | playing free games online to practice. |
Play money "cash" games are anything but practice for the real thing. They are nothing like real money (even .01/.02), and you will not get good experience playing them. Freeroll tournaments are better, after you weed out the crazies, most people are trying to play for real, and you can get experience this way.
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:35 am GMT by Markstorm
| tame_deuces wrote: | You are not right to believe so. The big hands will win less times but they will win more chips overall.
This is because 80% of 100 is 80, whereas 50% of 400 is 200. Lower chance to win, but more money in the pot = bigger profit anyway.
|
Okay, I understand that but isn't the rule about playing big pairs to limit the competition? For example, with KK usually a player will raise 4+ the BB to get everyone except 1-2 to fold. If the competition refuses to be limited, ie will call anything, why arent big pairs put at a disadvantage?
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:33 am GMT by Ensano
they do weaken in multiway pots but that doesn't mean start limping with them...
raise your big hands...
every time you raise you have to find out what amount to raise to to get the players to think before calling... if they calls a 4xbb raise then next time try 6, then 8 then 10 until you get 1-2 callers... the trick is to play tight and predictable to start.. as you show that you're only raising with strength they'll begin to respect your raises more and more... that's when you can start cutting back the size of your raises....
i played in a homegame like this and this strategy worked well for me...
play tight and straightforeward... use position to your advantage so you don't have to cbets (you can take the free card if you miss and hammer at them when you hit)... don't c/r... bet at them even OOP when you flop something... basically you want them to figure out how you're playing... you want them to know that when you bet or raise it's time for them to fold... once that happens you can simply change gears and take advantage of your image...
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:01 am GMT by tame_deuces
| Markstorm wrote: | | tame_deuces wrote: | You are not right to believe so. The big hands will win less times but they will win more chips overall.
This is because 80% of 100 is 80, whereas 50% of 400 is 200. Lower chance to win, but more money in the pot = bigger profit anyway.
|
Okay, I understand that but isn't the rule about playing big pairs to limit the competition? For example, with KK usually a player will raise 4+ the BB to get everyone except 1-2 to fold. If the competition refuses to be limited, ie will call anything, why arent big pairs put at a disadvantage? |
Naw, only if winning the pot is your only concern. Your true concern should always be about maximizing profits.
Big pairs are the strongest hands you can get dealt for multiway pots, and what you have to do after the flop is the poker bit.
The golden creed with for simple play with big pairs is to raise as much as you think they will call and never let them in cheap.
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:07 am GMT by supafrey
My rich poker buddy mentioned that his "most important" lesson was the one where he learned the difference between winning "pots" and winning "money".
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:57 pm GMT by Felting
| supafrey wrote: | | My rich poker buddy mentioned that his "most important" lesson was the one where he learned the difference between winning "pots" and winning "money". |
All over the world the players winning the most pots are the one's losing the most money.
- Mike Caro
I'm quoting from memory but I think that's close.
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:19 am GMT by UrAteUp
With play money poker the best way to win is simply push all in with AA,KK,QQ and AK. Don't be suprised to get sucked out on and don't be surprised when KK gets called by A2 and rivers a wheel. It happens.
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:46 am GMT by AHBrownell
It depends. 
If you are going to get all the money in preflop, then you want the strongest hands. AA-JJ, AK, etc.
This is because these hands are going to win more often then the other hands.
If you are going to play multiway pots, where you are investing less of your stack, then hands like suited connectors and pocket pairs are the best hands.
This is because these hands are going to hit hands that are going to beat one pair more often.
---
The difference between both groups is that in the first group you might win a showdown against a hand or two just by seeing the showdown. AA or AK often win simply because they start out strong. AK-high might be the best hand. The second group of hands will hit straights, flushes, sets, etc. and THEN you get the money in, once you've hit your hand. These hands can allow you to win HUGE pots, but whenever you are being given the choice of all-in preflop you'd rather have AA or KK than any suited connector in the deck...
Posted Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:56 am GMT by jimmer
| supafrey wrote: | | My rich poker buddy mentioned that his "most important" lesson was the one where he learned the difference between winning "pots" and winning "money". |
Nice quote. You should have this as your sig.
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