Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:41 pm GMT by Metaknight42
hey guys needed some help and wondered if i did the right thing on this hand.In this example im metaknight42 this is from ultimate bet
Getting Hand History Information...
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Hand #43472838-36 at Thu8pmARB07Free-019 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Started at 14/Jun/07 20:50:02
jkeyfur is at seat 0 with 4910.
try44 is at seat 1 with 1740.
BiggBlue is at seat 2 with 2795.
iluvkings is at seat 3 with 590.
bjlasiter is at seat 4 with 1375.
metaknight42 is at seat 5 with 4380.
tyvm2792 is at seat 6 with 5740.
Freddy1105 is at seat 7 with 2590.
pablue33 is at seat 8 with 2895.
cheeser47 is at seat 9 with 2135.
The button is at seat 0.
try44 posts the small blind of 30.
BiggBlue posts the big blind of 60.
jkeyfur: -- --
try44: -- --
BiggBlue: -- --
iluvkings: -- --
bjlasiter: -- --
metaknight42: 5d Kd
tyvm2792: -- --
Freddy1105: -- --
pablue33: -- --
cheeser47: -- --
Pre-flop:
iluvkings calls. bjlasiter folds. metaknight42
calls. tyvm2792 folds. Freddy1105 folds. pablue33
folds. cheeser47 calls. jkeyfur calls. try44
calls. BiggBlue folds.
Flop (board: Qd 2d 4h):
try44 checks. iluvkings checks. metaknight42 bets
60. cheeser47 calls. jkeyfur folds. try44 raises
to 600. iluvkings folds. metaknight42 calls.
cheeser47 folds.
Turn (board: Qd 2d 4h 3d):
try44 checks. metaknight42 bets 150. try44 calls.
River (board: Qd 2d 4h 3d Tc):
try44 checks. metaknight42 checks.
Showdown:
try44 shows Qc 7h.
try44 has Qc 7h Qd 4h Tc: a pair of queens.
metaknight42 shows 5d Kd.
metaknight42 has 5d Kd Qd 2d 3d: flush, king high.
Hand #43472838-36 Summary:
No rake is taken for this hand.
metaknight42 wins 1920 with flush, king high.
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:37 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Don't take offence to this, but here is my honest opinion.
I don't like any street in this hand.
Preflop: Fold
Flop: Bet more or check, fold to that large a raise
Turn: Bet alot more.
River: Bet bet bet bet bet bet bet.
But the big tip is def to fold preflop.
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:37 pm GMT by Ensano
agreed... terrible play every street...
on a 10 handed table you limp in EP (only third to act) with a suited king... suited kings are straight up always garbage...
pot 300 flop Qd 2d 4h...
ok so you got lucky and now have a Khigh flush draw... you're third to act out of 4... you min bet 60 into a 300 chip pot... what are you trying to achieve with this?... semibluff? not a chance... there's no need to semibluff in pos into 4 other people... not only that but if someone does have a monster hand you just reopened the betting for them to raise you when the person behind you may very well have checked and the EP slowplayer would've let you draw for free..
also min bets scream either draws or huge hands but either way the person that makes a min bet in this situation usually also shows many other fishlike characteristics that many people take notice of... i for example quickly make notes of these people and usually by the end of the session end up on "the list" (its basically people i look to sit down with before i even look at the table list)
now you just got c/r... villian raised you to 600... so you're calling 540 to win 960 that's at best 1.8:1 not good odds to chace a non nut draw especially against someone who just check/raised you (cause you know you're most likely facing a turn bet if you miss your draw)...
pot 1500 chips... turn 3d.. booyah...
kk now you hit.. you're in pos.. now what villian checks so he can easily be putting you on a hit flushdraw, but a set looks really likely in this spot so a bet is in order.... but how much... def more than 150... that's 1/10th the pot... you're now laying him 10:1 on his draw (if you're not already behind... maybe it was a c/r on a FD just cause your min bet looked so much like garbage)..
if he's got a set he's got a 20% chance to draw out on you (all he needs is 5:1)... AQ maybe.. Ad maybe... that's just 4:1... how about we give him a garbage 2 pair; 24o... 12:1... that's the only hand you're pricing out with this bet...
bet more at least 1/2 pot...
pot 1800 river Tc...
villian checks... now it's up to you in pos to decide if any more money goes into the pot...
now the only reasonable hand that villian could have here that would have you beat would be the semibluffed c/r on the flop with Axd... but that isn't very likely so you def want to freely get as much money as you think you can into this pot... this is your last chance to do it...
as shown by his slowing down on the turn... villian is a little worried that you hit your FD so I feel that a value bet would be out of the question... anything under 1/2 pot would look too much like it is... a value bet...
villian has only a short stack left (930) and the pot is rather large... i think i would push here to try and represent a steal... you haven't shown much real strength so you could easily have been showing donk style agression for say AK or maybe even a middle PP... i think the push would get a call here...
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:22 am GMT by Metaknight42
with some of them then i should have bet more then?
The reason i bet before the flop i was trying to blufff and mix up my play{i had basic been calling when i had good hands}.
One more thing since im trying to play more aggressively that would betting half the pot? The bet of 150 i made was Not a minimum bet {the big blind at the time was 20}
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:10 am GMT by Ensano
yeah you bet more than the min (150)... but you bet 150 at a 1500 pot... there's no point in dong that...
if you're going to bet at a pot on the flop or turn it should be AT LEAST 1/2 pot...
Posted Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:08 am GMT by jimmer
Basically, the whole point in betting is to either
1. gain more information about the other players cards
2. get more money in the pot
3. win the pot there-and-then.(bluff by betting)
Most of the bets you made on all streets were neither of the three. Using Ensano's example
| Ensano wrote: | yeah you bet more than the min (150)... but you bet 150 at a 1500 pot... there's no point in dong that...
|
this is because the pot odds are so big it's worth calling with anything.
Lets look at you're bet on the flop. The pot was 300. Both players before you check. You can either check or bet. If you bet, it needs to be to gain information on the others or to win the pot. (you can't bet for value as you don't actually have a hand)
1. BETTING FOR INFORMATION, if you're gonna bet to get information on the other players, you need to bet 200+. Anyone who calls this will probably have trips, a Queen, or two-pair (fairly unlikely though)(if they did, they may re-raise, but at least you have that info). They may even be holding out for a flush draw. Either way you now have information on the other guys.
2. BETTING FOR VALUE. (you obviously can't on this hand as you don't have anything), but let say you had pocket 4's and now have trips. You've probably got the best hand and therefore want to get paid off. Therefore with 300 in the pot and four others still in the hand the chances are if you bet 100-200, you're gonna get a caller(which is what you want.
3. To win the pot there-and-then is not really an option in this hand. This is because
A.there's players to act after you (What happens if you bet 300 with nothing and they re-raise?)
B. There's still four others in the pot. Therefore the chances are someone will call. (and you don't want that)
Either way, all three betting options are weak as you don't have a hand and are facing 4 other players. (If you we're only facing one, I might try either an information bet, or a bluff bet.
To recap, by betting 60 into a pot of 300 you achieve nothing.
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