mid tournament king high flush draw |
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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:01 am GMT by zaxxon23
Pokerstars 180-seat sng $10
Level 5
Condensed version:
small blind 75
big blind 150
utg - villian raise 150 to 300 (2465 chips left)
fold fold...
playerx calls 115 all in
hero (button) Kc 3c call 300 (3745 chips left)
small and big fold
flop
Ts 8c Qc
villian raise 1000 (pot=1035) (1465 chips left)
hero....
I bailed but feel like I should have moved all in. It's such a common move however, and I was caught raising on a flush draw about 10 hands previously with mostly the same players. I also can't raise enough to scare him out of the pot cause he doesn't have much left for chips. If I had the ace, I probably would have, but I just couldn't with the king.
So what would you do here?
Result below:
villian has Q8, club lands on the river
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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:28 am GMT by Ensano
first off fold preflop...
suited Ks especially against a raise is just garbage... if you don't agree with me then pm me your stars handle so i can come sit down with you..
but as played...
villian overbetting pot looks to me like a fish overprotecting his hand...
this happens often with newer players... they get scared someoen will draw out on them every time they see a FD...
his 1k bet into a 940 pot if you call is going to commit him on this hand...especially since you've got pos and you ultimately have final say if another bet is made..
so you're no longer calling 1k to win 1940.. you're going to take his stack if you win... you're calling 1k to win 3405... that's laying you 3.4:1...
you're not quite getting the 4:1 you need to take one card but raising wouldn't be +EV... you get that from the % of times the villian fold to your raise which i'd say is very low here...
to me this is a close one between folding and calling...
fold cause you're not getting the 4:1 to draw 1 card for your flush (even if you do stack him when you hit it)....
BUT...
a J on the turn would give you the OESD and the FD which you would have odds to chace if he pushed the turn... so call...
so assuming he has AA...on the turn you have the 9 outs for the flush and if you want to gamble you have the 3 non club Js for the draw on the river... giving you a total of 12 outs for the turn...
accoding to the calculator on the site you got 25.53% chance of hitting...
or 3.9:1... you're getting 3.4:1...
I dunno what to say... what if he doesn't even have a hand... say mid PP and you're K is live?
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:26 am GMT by UrAteUp
Standard rule for most tournament players is don't risk your stack on a draw. If your getting odds to make the draw then take them.
I agree with Ensano, fold this crap pre-flop. Most times if you do hit a flop with your high card, with that kicker you are almost always sorely out kicked. Never risk your stack with TP in a multiway pot either.
You missed the flop to a degree, you did have the flush draw but you could be so far behind that your not going to catch up. Supose villian has Ax or AX  . Best to lay it down and wait for a better spot.
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:03 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
As played, I don't see how you can do anything but shove.
Next time though, fold preflop.
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:36 pm GMT by zaxxon23
Let me make clear that I am never happy about calling with this hand. Only in rare circumstances would I condsider playing. However, given the weak utg raise, the all in for half the call, and the potential blind calls, I called for the simple chance of getting lucky in a decent sized pot. If the small and big call, we've got ourselves a 1300 pot that costs 300 to try. If anyone else catches anything later on and I get lucky w/ the flush, there's a decent chunk of change out there for me to win. Blame Doyle, he's the one who told me to do it. 
I would have certainly folded this hand if the original raise was a typical kind of raise. As is, he's either got trash and trying a weak steal (which is not uncommon), or has a monster and is trying to sweeten the pot. In that case, if I hit the flush I'm looking real good, especially if the Ac shows on the flop.
So yeah, I'm not disappointed with the call. I wouldn't do it often, but in this situation I wouldn't have a problem doing it again. If that's a mistake, then I guess I'm not a very good player.
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:28 pm GMT by Ensano
your odds of flopping a flush are what... 117.79:1... even just a flush draw is 8.11:1..
even is you're looking for a small set on the flop..
125.82:1
you're officially getting 2.1:1 to call the RAISE...
calling a raise hoping to get lucky isn't winning poker...
now if the pot was 2500 and you only had to call 300 hoping for a FD then you could say it was a proper call...
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:40 pm GMT by xDiamond_CutteRx
If you think the UTG raise is weak, why not just raise and take it away right there?
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:53 pm GMT by zaxxon23
Yeah I agree not enough people had called for me to play that.
Posted Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:11 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
defo fold preflop
as it is your only option is to push or fold
now i dont know what rest of table had, what was avg stack
but in 2nd hour i dont like pushing my non nut flush only draws
if i have average stack
early on i might do it but like i said not in 2nd hour unless i'm short or huge stack
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