Posted Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:50 am GMT by Geno
Played in a home game 3 days ago with my usual bunch who are all AWFUL players. We play every month, always playing two $20 freezeout games and I haven't finished outside the top 2 in over a year now.
Last month, I got crippled when I flipped KK vs AA pre-flop against a guy who is one of the better players. He plays a tight game and very rarely raises pre-flop or mixes it up. If he's in the pot, you know he's on a reasonable hand or he's the unraised BB. He folds a lot of SBs even in the early levels.
This month, I picked up KK in the BB when 4 handed while chip leader. The guy from last month puts in a raise which looks like about 5xBB and it folds round to me. I ask him what the raise is and he says "I don't know" and then counts it.
Alarms bells are ringing in my head because if he ever raises pre-flop, he always puts in a standard amount and he always knows how much it is. Literally the only hand I can put him on at this point is Aces.
Needless to say, rather than fold KK pre-flop which is so rarely correct, I go over the top of him, get called. As soon as he declares call I say that I know he has Aces and sure enough, AA appears and I lose 2/3 my stack.
The questions is, even with a read this strong, is it right to fold KK here? Obviously, it would have been right on this hand but in this situation, would it be right in the future? You can never be 100% sure on any tell really after all.......
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Posted Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:03 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
id see a flop if stacks are somewhat decent
but then again i never had a dead read that someone has AA well
unless some tight nit going all in after a raise and re-raise
so usually i push or re-raise , after all I'm not Phil :D
and i like i said i never had a dead on read preflop
Posted Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:35 pm GMT by JMX360
Folding kings preflop is something that can be done only under extreme circumstances. With your case, there is no way to get away from it since it's 4-handed. However, with a full table and multiple re-raises, it's possible: http://www.pokerhand.org/?838995
Besides, the chances of kings running into aces is extremely unlikely to begin with.
Posted Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:52 pm GMT by Ciso_B
I had a situation about 3 weeks ago in a live mtt at a casino where i had K-K, but it was a loose player who raised, so I obviously re raised but while he was there thinking and pondering I sickly knew he was going all in anyway so I rather impolitely said " what you waiting for then , go all in, I know you are"....he said " ok then" and went all in. Then I am sitting in my seat thinking , christ I know hes got em, but with the structure the way it is ,I really cant go around folding Ks. So I called ( after some reluctance and moaning) I think I even said before I called " I have sick luck in this place, finally get a hand and walk into better"....and he showed AA. I hit a K this time though 
I'd say its very rarely a correct decision to fold KK pre flop, unless your read is so strong and you have 100% faith in your conviction. In this occasion I think I had about 90% but the format etc. compelled me to call.
Plus you always have an out
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