Posted Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:18 pm GMT by docgecko
Have a question that popped up in a game over the weekend. Someone called a hand and showed his cards first. The other player mucked his hand. The caller asked to see his hand and the guy who mucked the hand said once the hand was mucked he didn't have to show it. I think he's wrong and because he was called he had to show his hand. Can't find a ruling on it so if anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate a response. Thanks.
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Posted Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:12 pm GMT by raisebot
| docgecko wrote: | | Have a question that popped up in a game over the weekend. Someone called a hand and showed his cards first. The other player mucked his hand. The caller asked to see his hand and the guy who mucked the hand said once the hand was mucked he didn't have to show it. I think he's wrong and because he was called he had to show his hand. Can't find a ruling on it so if anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate a response. Thanks. |
Generally, the rule is that anyone involved in a showdown can see the others cards, if they request. The solution to this is to fling your cards into the pile of muck. A good dealer will almost always immediately stick a discarded hand into the muck, to the point that the cards aren't distinguishable and 100% unretrievable.
HOWEVER, if the player that called asks to see the hand, and the cards are still retrievable (not jammed into the muck somewhere), then the other hand is LIVE. So even if the player that intended to muck somehow had a winning hand (maybe a straight or flush he somehow missed), and the caller(s) request to see that guys hand, then the hand would still be live.
Keep in mind, however, that house rules may vary depending on where you play, but as a general rule, a caller can request to see a hand.
Posted Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:32 am GMT by Gogie
| raisebot wrote: | | docgecko wrote: | | Have a question that popped up in a game over the weekend. Someone called a hand and showed his cards first. The other player mucked his hand. The caller asked to see his hand and the guy who mucked the hand said once the hand was mucked he didn't have to show it. I think he's wrong and because he was called he had to show his hand. Can't find a ruling on it so if anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate a response. Thanks. |
Generally, the rule is that anyone involved in a showdown can see the others cards, if they request. The solution to this is to fling your cards into the pile of muck. A good dealer will almost always immediately stick a discarded hand into the muck, to the point that the cards aren't distinguishable and 100% unretrievable.
HOWEVER, if the player that called asks to see the hand, and the cards are still retrievable (not jammed into the muck somewhere), then the other hand is LIVE. So even if the player that intended to muck somehow had a winning hand (maybe a straight or flush he somehow missed), and the caller(s) request to see that guys hand, then the hand would still be live.
Keep in mind, however, that house rules may vary depending on where you play, but as a general rule, a caller can request to see a hand. |
Anytime I've seen someone ask to see a "tossed" hand (i.e., where a player has thrown his cards away after the river without showing), the dealer has ALWAYS picked up the "tossed" hand and tapped it on the muck before exposing the cards. This way the hand is dead (mucked) and there can be no aruguments if it turns out to be a "winning" hand. Therefore, if you really want to see the other player's hand, a good dealer will make sure it is "mucked" before exposing it. However, it's always bad etiquette to request to see a mucked hand and you should never do it unless you seriously suspect cheating or collusion. I've seen some nasty discussion between players after one has asked to see a mucked hand. Sure, you've "paid" to see the cards, but it's still poor etiquette.
It's usually "internet" players who ask to see mucked hands - they aren't familiar with B&M etiquette. They're also the same idiots who try to intimidate other players by getting in their face, verbally berating them, etc. The internet has been great for spreading the "word" but it sure hasn't done much for developing "good" poker players.
Posted Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:33 am GMT by raisebot
| Gogie wrote: | | raisebot wrote: | | docgecko wrote: | | Have a question that popped up in a game over the weekend. Someone called a hand and showed his cards first. The other player mucked his hand. The caller asked to see his hand and the guy who mucked the hand said once the hand was mucked he didn't have to show it. I think he's wrong and because he was called he had to show his hand. Can't find a ruling on it so if anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate a response. Thanks. |
Generally, the rule is that anyone involved in a showdown can see the others cards, if they request. The solution to this is to fling your cards into the pile of muck. A good dealer will almost always immediately stick a discarded hand into the muck, to the point that the cards aren't distinguishable and 100% unretrievable.
HOWEVER, if the player that called asks to see the hand, and the cards are still retrievable (not jammed into the muck somewhere), then the other hand is LIVE. So even if the player that intended to muck somehow had a winning hand (maybe a straight or flush he somehow missed), and the caller(s) request to see that guys hand, then the hand would still be live.
Keep in mind, however, that house rules may vary depending on where you play, but as a general rule, a caller can request to see a hand. |
Anytime I've seen someone ask to see a "tossed" hand (i.e., where a player has thrown his cards away after the river without showing), the dealer has ALWAYS picked up the "tossed" hand and tapped it on the muck before exposing the cards. This way the hand is dead (mucked) and there can be no aruguments if it turns out to be a "winning" hand. Therefore, if you really want to see the other player's hand, a good dealer will make sure it is "mucked" before exposing it. However, it's always bad etiquette to request to see a mucked hand and you should never do it unless you seriously suspect cheating or collusion. I've seen some nasty discussion between players after one has asked to see a mucked hand. Sure, you've "paid" to see the cards, but it's still poor etiquette.
It's usually "internet" players who ask to see mucked hands - they aren't familiar with B&M etiquette. They're also the same idiots who try to intimidate other players by getting in their face, verbally berating them, etc. The internet has been great for spreading the "word" but it sure hasn't done much for developing "good" poker players. |
If house rules let anyone at the table request to see all showdown hands, then the hand is usually "killed" first. But like I said earlier, if the caller asks to see the hand, then it is still live.
Posted Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:28 pm GMT by Gogie
raisebot, you are absolutely..........................................................................................................................Right!
According to Robert's Rules of Poker:
Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.
I guess I've never really paid much attention to this when it happens. I've often noticed the dealer kill the hand, but never noticed that he doesn't when the winning player asks to see a losing player's hand. Maybe that's because it's not often a winning player cares what the losing player had  .
Posted Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm GMT by MrDarling
Sorry to hijack the thread ... Raiseboat, in your signature it says you need to say I call and raise when you want to raise. Though I always thought you simply need to say to say I raise. By saying I call, you can pause before continue the sentence to see players reaction. Sort of like a string bet.
please explain the rule.
Thanks
Danny
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