Posted Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:41 am GMT by Sentinel
You hold pockets, let's say JJ, the pot has been raised and called (it matters not who raised/called for this scenario).
Flop comes undercards. You bet, villain calls/raises or if he is to act first, he bets, you riase and he calls. In other words, the action hots up.
If he's connected the board then more than likely you're ahead but he could also have QQ, KK or AA. And not all villains reraise preflop to make it clear. Also, if they raised and you called then that gave them no option to reraise.
As said before, at $10< SNGs, villains will make such plays with pocket 4s as much as draws and missed A high as well as a biger pair.
Any ideas?
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Posted Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:44 am GMT by MrDarling
lots of things in this thread point to what missing in your poker thinking.
First, it is VERY important who is the PF aggressor.
Whats also just as important is : the players positions, the board texture, stack sizes, history, player images, table dynamic etc...
Posted Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:36 am GMT by Sentinel
Hi MrD,
I can see why you think that it points to a flaw in my thinking but that is not the case. There will be flaws, naturally, but the above isn't indicative.
I left out all of what you mention for a number of reasons and mainly due to brevity. I did the same in the other post I made today.
What you state as important cannot be faulted but at my level, many players do not respect any of this or take it into account, especially with regards to position. Most call with a wide range of hands. Rocks are few and far between and as for maniacs, well, I'm shoving my QQ everytime. I'm also taking a punt with my QQ against a short stack as I can take the hit if I am wrong. But then again, the maniac may well have hit. The point is, these are easier situations that and so don't require a post on the matter. So, for the sake of this topic, assume stacks are average at the least and that neither is heavily outweighted by the other.
As for pf aggressor, take your pick. Option 1: he raises 4x and you call. Option 2: You raise 4x and he flat calls.
History? It's a $5SNG. It's over within an hour and so can reach the middle levels without too much play from any one individual. Maybe he won without going to showdown etc. Maybe he took a player out and the rest are steering clear of him. Maybe it's only the 5th game of the tourney. And it goes without saying that the majority are non aware on poker and so will flat call big raises with JQ, threebet all in with 99 pre flop etc. Or make it an MTT where there is limited history between the two of you.
Finally, there is always the option that hero is not good enough to pick up on all these obvious reads taht are available within just 15 minutes.
Basically, you cannot vouch for the ability of the player nor have enough history. The table is not mega loose nor mega tight - just a typical table. Maybe 1 or 2 good players, 2 boneheads and the rest are mediocre types who overvalue face cards and suitedness.
I am not trying to be ignorant of all the elements you mentioned and am well aware of them. But a combination of a lack of expertise in the hero and the fact that many villains play a wide range of hands, over value hands, and are typically loose aggressive or pure calling stations who will chase means that when situations like this arise, it can be very hard indeed.
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