How to play deep in a tourny |
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Posted Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:23 pm GMT by **QUADS**
I have seen a few other posts about this but nothing in detail for the most part. My question is how to play hands when you miss and you know most people are playing premium hands for the most part. I could have made it even deeper in the tourney had I played some hands more aggressively. So when do you fold and when do you be more aggressive? Here is a hand for an example:
Full Tilt Poker Game #12818368516: The $200K Double Deuce (92076619), Table 216 - 5000/10000 Ante 1000 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:23:36 ET - 2009/06/14
Seat 1: Mr_Glimmerman (181,012)
Seat 2: Stantheman79 (211,344)
Seat 3: Eta_Beta123 (104,971)
Seat 4: madman1701 (162,223)
Seat 5: 1-final-table (256,005)
Seat 6: Cwdric (190,282)
Seat 7: jellycz (822,841)
Seat 8: western_home (429,560)
Seat 9: Shove Now (347,853)
Mr_Glimmerman antes 1,000
Stantheman79 antes 1,000
Eta_Beta123 antes 1,000
madman1701 antes 1,000
1-final-table antes 1,000
Cwdric antes 1,000
jellycz antes 1,000
western_home antes 1,000
Shove Now antes 1,000
madman1701 posts the small blind of 5,000
1-final-table posts the big blind of 10,000
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to madman1701  
Cwdric folds
jellycz folds
western_home folds
Shove Now raises to 26,000
Mr_Glimmerman folds
Stantheman79 folds
Eta_Beta123 folds
madman1701 calls 21,000
1-final-table folds
*** FLOP ***   
madman1701 has 15 seconds left to act
madman1701 checks
Shove Now has 15 seconds left to act
Shove Now bets 42,000
madman1701 has 15 seconds left to act
madman1701 ???
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Posted Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:41 pm GMT by HalfSugar
Calling off 1/8 your stack pre-flop out of position with AQo is pretty horrible. Plus, you are not deep at all here - your M (how many times your stack goes into a rotation of blinds and antes) is only 6.75 so you are pretty much in push/fold poker territory. Pre-flop you either push it all in or let it go, calling is the least viable option available here.
Posted Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:04 pm GMT by **QUADS**
| HalfSugar wrote: | | Plus, you are not deep at all here |
at this point there was like 120/9400 people left...that isn't considered deep?
Posted Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:36 pm GMT by miaowmiaowchowface
all in pre
Posted Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:41 pm GMT by supafrey
yeah all in preflop
Posted Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:42 pm GMT by Jonniedough
| HalfSugar wrote: | | your M (how many times your stack goes into a rotation of blinds and antes) is only 6.75 so you are pretty much in push/fold poker territory. |
I didnt know what M was until reading Gus Hansens book.I cant find it to paraphrase or help out. I will later or if some one has it commited to memory, it would help.
If I was quads I wonder why 6.75 is push/fold territory.
Posted Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:13 am GMT by Jernej Zorec
its push or fold, since raising or calling a raise pretty much commits u to the pot, so ur better off pushing now since calling and folding after u put half ur stack in is pretty bad
Posted Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:13 am GMT by HalfSugar
| **QUADS** wrote: | | HalfSugar wrote: | | Plus, you are not deep at all here |
at this point there was like 120/9400 people left...that isn't considered deep? |
I figured you meant deep stacked rather than deep in terms of % left of the tourney field. I'm not sure % left in a field really means anything at all to be honest.
Posted Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:28 am GMT by **QUADS**
Yah I noticed alot of push/fold poker happening, i was getting kind of frustrated because I was very comfortable with my stack. It was only recently that it started to suck....I had been running good all night and hitting the flop almost all the time so I figured calling here was a viable option. Obviously tho there comes a point where you have to put your chips in to make it further. Thanks for all the advice again. I've got quite the amount of respect of everyones opinion on this forum. I wish I would have signed up earlier and posted some stuff.lol.
Posted Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:03 pm GMT by Muck
M
I first read about it in Harrington on Holdem Vol 2 and it paid for the book in the next couple of tourneys 
Worth researching mate, it will pay off.
Posted Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:32 pm GMT by HalfSugar
M is a good concept to be taken alongside other factors for sure but in isolation, it's quite limited. I also think the M < 10 rule is a little off and it should be more like 8 but that's just splitting hairs.
Posted Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:09 pm GMT by supafrey
I think you're just grossly underestimating how good AQ is against their ranges right here. We're pushing for value.
Posted Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:31 am GMT by Muck
| HalfSugar wrote: | | M is a good concept to be taken alongside other factors for sure but in isolation, it's quite limited. I also think the M < 10 rule is a little off and it should be more like 8 but that's just splitting hairs. |
Agree but I wasn’t thinking as far as the separate M tiers and hand standards of each. The simple concept of push or fold filled a huge hole in my short stack game.
It’s also clear that many others aren’t aware of it because I still see players limp/folding when they have an M as low as 3 or 4. Although I admit this cheers me up because it shows they’re playing short stack too passively, which is something I can exploit if they’re around long enough for me to get the chance
Posted Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:53 am GMT by BeerWench13
| supafrey wrote: | | I think you're just grossly underestimating how good AQ is against their ranges right here. We're pushing for value. |
I concur.
Posted Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:06 am GMT by Ciso_B
yeah I think you gotta shove here bud...and seriously, people call weaker than A-Q here when you shove , suspecting you're restealing. A-Q looks like A-A when you've got like 15 blinds...although I still don't love AQ
Posted Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:24 pm GMT by lwestatbus
| **QUADS** wrote: | | Thanks for all the advice again. I've got quite the amount of respect of everyones opinion on this forum. |
Careful now. There are a couple of wackos running loose in the forum. But most of them are friendly wackos. (And you are right...there IS a lot of great advice here.)
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