Posted Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:11 pm GMT by VinJones
Can someone explain this to me?
Do you just count outs that contibute towards the hand you want, or any possible hands?
Can you count them at any time, or just post flop, pre flop etc?
Any tips appreciated.
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Posted Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:39 pm GMT by Always_Bored
If i put the guy on a straight. I only count the outs that will make my hand better than a straight.
If im looking for a flush I count the remaining spades in the deck. Not the pairs i could hit.
Posted Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:45 pm GMT by snoogins47
An "out" is just the card you're looking for....
For instance, if you have 67, and the board shows 89...
You have 8 outs to a straight.
(Any 5, and any 10, so therefore, 8 cards give you that straight.)
If you have four to a flush, you have 9 outs to it. (Four of your suit are accounted four, leaving 9 remaining in the deck)
Usually, outs are calculated with the thinking that if you hit an out, you will surely have the best hand... this is sometimes called "wins," as in "Alright, I have the flush draw on you, so I've got 9 wins"
They can be calculated whenever, well, whenever there are cards to come, obviously.
Basically the term 'outs' just means 'cards that will help your hand.'
It's up to you the context, whether or not you're drawing to a specific hand, or to general improvement (in the case of a straight flush draw, or two-pair, or whatnot)
So to figure 'outs,' just figure out what you're looking for, figure out what cards will give you that, and... there you have it.
Pre-flop it's hard to really consider anything an 'out' because you don't know how the hand will play out. I've heard some people use it in a preflop context though, as in a two-way all-in showdown.
For instance, A10 to KJ, you could say that KJ has 8 outs to the win., but obviously there are many other ways the hand could play out than just getting a single pair.
Posted Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:45 pm GMT by Dave B
It is most common to count your outs post flop. I call an out any card that I believe will give me a win. Sometimes you have less outs that you expect (flop bottom pair, hoping to have 5 outs for 2 pair or trips and someone flopped the top set).
I think, by definition, and out is considered any card that I improve your hand. But if I have 67 suited and the flop is A Q 9, I would say that I have zero outs, unless I can go runner runner str8 or trips.
Posted Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:37 pm GMT by VinJones
Ok thanks, I see now.
I read on a tips site that the % chance of you getting a hit (I assume hit = a winning hand) is the number of outs X 2, + 2. Although this seems flawed.
Another question, how important are working out the odss like pot odds etc? I have trouble working things out online, when I only have 15 secs to do so. Is it worth playing come mock hands in ordr to work things out?
Posted Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:48 pm GMT by vegasholdem
If you don't mind doin' calculations on da fly...here's my 1card to come equation:
1 Card to Come Formula:
(Decksize - Outs) / outs = Odds Against
For this formula to work:
1)always keep a running count of the Pot Odds(aka,"potsize" or total#bets))
2)if Pot Odds = Draw Odds then Call
(note: use my 1 card to come formula to figure out your Draw Odds)
... alot of people like to count outs during play....i find it too time consuming to calculate odds on da fly...
So, i found it much ezier to do all the calcuatons beforehand and simply memorize 'em for later!
Luckily, i have posted All my work online @ my website(your welcome!  ) Furthermore, i am the only website that has calculated preflop odds AND All-in odds for your veiwing pleasure!!! 
Posted Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:07 pm GMT by Nut Flush
The "(outs * 2)+2" formula is a quick way to count your outs post flop. It is not exact but it is very close. Suppose you are dealt 34 and the flop comes A2x, you're only real out is a 5 and there are 4 of them left out of 47 cards. So you take (4*2)+2=10. So you basically have a 10% chance to get your card.
Now if you do the exact math of 5/47*100 you get an answer of 10.6
So you can see it's not exact but it's a fast way to get a rough idea of your odds afterr the flop. Deal some hands to yourself and just practice the math in your head and you should be able to do it prety soon without even thinking about it.
EDIT: I should add there is also a quick formula for calculating your rough outs after the turn but I forget what it is at the moment.
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