AA, KK - A survival hand? |
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Posted Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:19 pm GMT by TheDudeChad
Seems like every time I get dealt these hands I'm more concerned with not getting outdrawn than with sucking money out of people with them. For example, I snag KK on the BB in the early-mid stages of a NL tourney. There are a few limpers. Instead of making a somewhat reasonable raise, I tend to go all-in in fear of letting a limper catch something on the flop, even if I'm the chip leader at the table. This usally ends in me winning about 3 or 4x the BB, which isn't really a good outcome considering you one of the best starting hands. I can't seem to get over the fear of losing with the best starting hands by an inferior one.
Any suggestions on getting more out of these premium hands?
(Sorry if this post doesn't make sense, its kind of late. Try your best to decipher it  )
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Posted Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:21 am GMT by hebrigger
I think that winning a hand is winning a hand; however I recommend for you to try and make a nice raise when snagging a KK or AA, say 3-4 times BB. It depends on your posisition as well. At BB the whole table had a chance to bet before you, if every player called or folded, than I will defintly raise and not go all in. If someone raised big, and a coupleof people call, I will go all in. The trick is to may players pay to see the flop, not to necessasirly scare them out of the game. After the flop, calculate the odds and make your move, chances are, that you will win the pot more times with pocket KK or AA, the odds are definitely working with you. Check the chart on this site:
(http://www.gocee.com/poker/HE_Val_Sort.htm),
I got it from this forum in an April 14th post by Schnukums. Bottom line, going all in with KK AA is not a bad idea, but you definitely want to try to milk the table with those cards sometimes. After all it is gambling, if someone out draws you, it’s just part of the game.
Posted Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:16 pm GMT by nicthestick
why not check KK in the big?? if an A falls ( as they ALWAYS do) you get away for nothing extra. If a K hits, you get unlimited action from other hands that are 2nd best because your hand is disguised. I know that you are supposed to raise and take the blinds here, but the thing about moving in is that the only hand that will call in that situation is the one that will beat you, namely AA. So either check it or raise 3x to 5x the BB JMHO.
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:22 am GMT by alphakenny1
see what i don't get is why are you playing poker when you fear getting outdrawn? thats part of the game and everytime you play poker you will most likely receive a bad beat. don't ever be scared of getting outdrawn. what usually you should do in BB is raise the pot. you have that simple pot button online so push it. if someone calls you then most likely you have the advantage. as long as its not a scary flop, you should bet and hope that your opponent catches top pair lets say they have A,Q and a Q pops on the flop, then you got them really screwed. remember all you can do is put yourself in position to have the best hand. after that, its the luck factor. remember 2,7 offsuit can beat AA,KK in any given hand. so dont be afraid.
Posted Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:02 am GMT by boden12
With pocket pairs, even nice ones (QQ-AA) you still don't want any limpers but I wouldn't go all in. I played some NL last night (fourway including me) against some real fools and picked up JJ on the button. Now before this it was a real loose-aggressive $1-3 spread game. However, I'm not going to limp in and get outdrawn with some Q/K-rag hand and give up such a premium hand trying to milk it. Bam. Bet out $20 and actually got 2 callers which was a little scary. Flop is 9-7-3 or something wicked ragged. Bet out $20 and now only one slow caller. Turn is now another 9. Now in limit games this might be a scare card, but in NL with me betting $20 pre-flop and then only getting called after the flop I know I'm golden. Bet another $20 (first position) and the guy finally folds. I make a lot of money and don't get outdrawn (tho he had only 3 outs with QJs...hehehe).
All in preflop? It's just gambling to me as you're not playing poker if you're called. Just flip em up and see how the cards fall. Unless you've purposely been playing badly to get a poor image I see no point to this. Almost always you'll just pick up the blinds unless some short stacks wanna double up on suited connectors or some other pocket pair.
Posted Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:04 pm GMT by Fat Tony
| Quote: | | All in preflop? It's just gambling to me as you're not playing poker if you're called. Just flip em up and see how the cards fall. Unless you've purposely been playing badly to get a poor image I see no point to this |
so, if you're in a tournament and happen to be the short stack and get something like AA or KK in the pocket, you're not going all-in pre-flop??? you would NEVER go all-in pre-flop is what you seem to be saying. that is not very wise IMO.
Posted Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:26 pm GMT by boden12
Well if I was a short stack I would bet according to position and how previous players usually act trying to suck out the most chips. Right after the BB? Maybe a small raise or just a call hoping for a raise from a later position player. I was referring more if you had a decent foothold and were worried about being outdrawn if you just throw out a nice sized raise. If you can throw out 5x the BB and still have enough scratch you probably aren't that shortstacked.
| Fat Tony wrote: | | Quote: | | All in preflop? It's just gambling to me as you're not playing poker if you're called. Just flip em up and see how the cards fall. Unless you've purposely been playing badly to get a poor image I see no point to this |
so, if you're in a tournament and happen to be the short stack and get something like AA or KK in the pocket, you're not going all-in pre-flop??? you would NEVER go all-in pre-flop is what you seem to be saying. that is not very wise IMO. |
Posted Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:15 pm GMT by JuanVerde
Seems like online people will tend to call an all-in bet more frequently than they would a substantial raise. With KK I wouldn't mind a call.
That said, I usually play the cheap 10$ tourneys, so they still get some crazy calls.
Posted Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:54 pm GMT by ORGrinder
i think the problem with the logic here is you're talking about decent limit ring games.
in lower limit (entry fee) trny's... it doesn't matter WHAT your bet. all-in, 5x the bb, 4x the bb, etc., or in what position your in, early, late, middle, you're chances of being called by someone holding a crap hand is exponentially larger than in a decent limit ring game.
the other night in a $5 SNG, i was in the BB and last to act pre-flop. i moved all in w/ an AA against a single player with an equal chip count as i. it was about halfway through the trny (down to 5) and my intent was to pick up the blinds and avoid being outdrawn. well, it didn't work. this individual called........ with a T9o. he/she/it caught the str8 on the river to knock me out.
it's just the nature of the low limit/cheap entry games. you're chances of getting outdrawn by people calling with crap are HUGE regardless of how you play your hand.
jmho though.
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