First time at an Atlantic City Holdem Table...interesting... |
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Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:56 pm GMT by m3racer
Well I was in AC this weekend and played at Ballys (didnt even know they had a poker room...). It was 2/4 limit since my wife was playing too. I started with $80 and left with over $300, but i was really getting annoyed. I realized i cannot play this low limit crap. We had 10 players at the table, and the SMALLEST flop we saw i think was EIGHT players! People always said "Well, its just $2 to see the flop...." This was awful, i dont think any good hands won, it was always the 3/8 offsuit who flopped 33A somehow. It was amazing to see the crap winning hands.
I did NOT see all the flops, I do not play like that. My BEST hands though were on the blinds of course, one memorable one was a killer 4/6 offsuit that flopped 3 5 7. I was sitting pretty with the straight. I bet, someone raised, someone else re raised, so i raised to the limit. Everyone called. Next card was an A. bet bet raise, raise, bet bet bet... final card was a K. Same deal, bet bet raise raise raise.... no flush on the board, i had the nuts. I took the pot but didnt see the other hands. I really want to know what these other people are chasing though, it was unreal.
So I learned i hate limit poker, but you can do well if you know what you are doing. I cannot play with 10 players in every damn flop, you are bound to lose. I dont know how many times people folded after the river when they didnt get what they chased. Amazing.
Bally is not bad, smaller room though, on the 6th floor. They do have NL there too but not when i played. Id like to try the borgatta though next time I go.
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Posted Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:56 pm GMT by mindgame
Well anyone who takes down 300 bucks in a 2/4 game after a $80 buy in has a hell of a lot of nerve bithin' about it. Yeah, it's a pain to deal with 10 callers/flop. You can play well and still get killed, but you still ended up stacking chips so you must have figured something out that the rest of the table didn't.
I'm only posting because I'm a limit player and we have to deal with this all the time. I watched a guy last month sit down at a 10/20 table and raise and re-raise damn near every hand for 10 hours with absolute horseshit most of the time. He ended up leaving with $3800 dollars, more of it mine than I'd care to admit. Talk about maddening.
But my point is that the really good limit players, and I modestly put myself among the worst of those, consistently win. It's tough work intellectualy and emotionaly. I think the game is extraordinarily challenging and those of us playing there and beating the games week after week are given precious little credit. Of course nobody with any sense at all tries to make any money at 2/4, 4/8, or even 5/10. You might as well shoot dice.
It's tough, but how much damn intelligence does it take to go all in with AA? Wow, there's a real intellectual challenge. Work that hand against a table of tough poker players, though, playing just right...not yanking the bait out before the hook's set...dumping the damn thing and cutting your losses when it's beat...my friend, that's a poker challenge I lay before the very best.
Posted Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:40 am GMT by m3racer
Oh i wasnt BITCHING about the results, but i felt like it wasnt real poker. It seems like the luckiest river always won, as people stayed in with absolute crap and would catch a card every hand to win. Its like a slot machine, just bet bet bet and pray you hit that pair of 2s on the river!
Posted Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:46 pm GMT by ride928
I play in Atlantic City at least once a week. I generally play 3/6 or 5/10, but still like to play 2/4 once in a while. It's a different kind of game. If you made 220 profit, then you've already figured out how to beat it. I actually responded to a post in the general poker chat forum on how to beat it. The best advice I can give you is accept it for what it is....a table full of 80% crappy players that see everything.
Posted Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:57 pm GMT by humbleman
Go play 10/20 at the Borgata, I play there monthly and everybody is pretty learned and reasonable, very little foolishness. 8)
Posted Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:39 pm GMT by Big Mike Watters
| humbleman wrote: | | Go play 10/20 at the Borgata, I play there monthly and everybody is pretty learned and reasonable, very little foolishness. 8) |
Said the spider to the fly... 
Posted Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:55 pm GMT by mindgame
Oh come on, now. Everyone has to be the fly for a while before he graduates to spider. And even the spiders must constantly be on the lookout for bigger, nastier spiders...some of whom do a very nice job of looking like flies.
Posted Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:13 pm GMT by Big Mike Watters
Amen, brother.
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:30 am GMT by jwrussell
This kind of stuff really cracks me up. Now, please understand, I am no expert, there are a ton of players on this site far more advanced than I am, but please!
The following quotes are what I'm talking about:
| m3racer wrote: | | i was really getting annoyed. I realized i cannot play this low limit crap. We had 10 players at the table, and the SMALLEST flop we saw i think was EIGHT players! |
| mindgame wrote: | | Of course nobody with any sense at all tries to make any money at 2/4, 4/8, or even 5/10. You might as well shoot dice. |
| humbleman wrote: | | Go play 10/20 at the Borgata, I play there monthly and everybody is pretty learned and reasonable, very little foolishness. |
My responses, in order: Cool!, I beg to differ, and what fun is that?
I understand that fishy games with alot of people in a hand are difficult and have alot of variance to them, but come on, they are beatable! Mabye not at one sitting, I understand that. If you are going somewhere for a day or a couple of days, then by all means, pick the game you think you are more likely to beat. But if you are playing there regularly do you really want the toughest game out there (the 10/20 described at the Borgata) or the easiest one? Now trust me, if I can find a table with 6 callers every hand instead of 8 I'm probably going for the 6, but either one is fine with me.
As I understand it California Poker is ALL this way. It's where the term "no fold'em Hold'em" originated. There are plenty of pros out there making a living, so it can't be all that bad, now can it?
Again, I'm not trying to flame or piss anyone off, I guess I just have a different opinion.
Oh yeah, and m3racer, $220 from $80 is a return I'll take any day! 
By the way, for future reference:
| m3racer wrote: | | took the pot but didnt see the other hands. I really want to know what these other people are chasing though, it was unreal. |
In most casinos you can request to see the hands of anyone that calls the last bet on the river. It's meant to prevent collusion and it's not the most well known rule (read: it will almost always start an argument), but at most casinos this is the rule. So the next time it happens, pick a pot where the most people were in and call this out. Just don't do it too often, it tends to piss everyone off. 
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:53 am GMT by mindgame
Two things of interest here:
One--on beating these goofy low-limit games. By some amazing coincidence a good friend of mine playing 5/10 for 5 hours yesterday at Harrah's in East Chicago took down a $925 win. He was up over a thousand and got his Aces cracked twice in the last round and just headed home. At the same time, 500 yards away at Trump at their 5/10 game my son won $790 in 4 hours and 45 minutes and then headed for home. I would have thought either one of these were impossible at those stakes, but when the table is offering you 6+ calls every hand to your pre-flop raise and the deck falls on you...my God the money just pours in.
and Two:
Rules on that request to see any callers' hand at the river do vary, and you are wise to inquire what they are. Where I play you may only make the request once an hour, but the dealers change every 30 minutes, so I've gotten away with it more frequently.
But my god, it sure does piss some players off. I've been called things that I could have had players ejected from the casino for saying. Of course it's not my fault if these morons don't know the rules, or feel that for some mysterious reason there's something wrong with excercising your rights as a player. The tough thing is the dealers. They are trained to grab that mucked hand as fast as possible and shove it into the deck. You have to ask very quickly, and quite loudly. About half the time I ask the dealer will be too fast or will pretend he didn't hear me. This is all, of course, to prevent arguments. The house has no interest at all in helping you see that hand. It's generally a rule required by the state gaming commission, putatively to protect you from collusion.
Not that it does much good against collusion. I've seen an obvious case recently and 4 of us went to the floor manager. He not only refused to kick them out or even put them at seperate tables--he wouldn't even move them so they weren't sitting next to each other. All he said was "Well, I can't prove anything...and their horrible players anyway."
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:27 am GMT by golddog
racer, I think you've identified the key thing:
| Quote: | | I did NOT see all the flops, I do not play like that. |
All the rest of the people were probably just pushing money back and forth. The savings you got from not going in with crap are probably a large part of the margin that made you a winner.
I think the low-limit games can be beaten by playing in this fashion, but it's not always a lot of fun.
Personally, it depends what mood I'm in; if I'm out to party and drink a lot of beer, 2/4 is a fine game, I generally win or at least lose less than the beer would've cost. If I'm looking to play real poker, I find better stakes.
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:10 pm GMT by jwrussell
| mindgame wrote: | | I've seen an obvious case recently and 4 of us went to the floor manager. He not only refused to kick them out or even put them at seperate tables--he wouldn't even move them so they weren't sitting next to each other. All he said was "Well, I can't prove anything...and their horrible players anyway." |
Sounds like he was getting a cut.
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:52 pm GMT by mindgame
No, you'd just have to know Roberto. Nice guy, but not a poker player. And sometimes he can be a dolt. The deal is that the poker players are the stepchildren of the whole casino and he's the wicked stepmom. All he wants to do is keep his ass out of trouble with the beancounters in the basement. He sits back and let's them cut our comps down from $1 an hour to 10 cents and then as much as tells us "Well, I whined about it." The guys idea of a forceful gesture is a shrug.
Posted Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:08 pm GMT by humbleman
No offense taken JW :D I was just offering a possible "cure" to a stated problem. I play the 10/20 at Borgata because (in my experience there) the players are serious about making some money and the table talk is usually polite and respectful and drunks are few and far between. That may not be the experience of others but I always seem to encounter the loud mouth insulters, drunks and crazy callers at the lower limits and while I enjoy taking their money, the crap I and others have to put up with to get it tests even my near limitless patience at times. So, I just avoid the problem and move up to 10/20. One man's solution only :D
Posted Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:26 pm GMT by TexMex
| mindgame wrote: | | I would have thought either one of these were impossible at those stakes, but when the table is offering you 6+ calls every hand to your pre-flop raise and the deck falls on you...my God the money just pours in. |
That's exactly what I've been telling everyone. If you just wait for a great hand and keep raising, you'll get a few calls and make a ton of money.
Posted Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:04 pm GMT by stagasaurus
I've played 2/4 in the Taj and the Borgata, and the Borgata better beyond comparison. AC is a pretty scummy place, and the chips at the Taj looked as if they had been handled by every degenerate in that town. Even the 2/4 table at Borgata was classy and well worth the 2 hour wait to sit there. Plus it's non-smoking too.
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