Totally new, going to play some $1-$3 |
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Posted Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:05 pm GMT by bangsb41
Hi. I entered my very first no limit tournament and I placed 2nd out of 50.
I have been studying up a lot as far as Hold 'em is concerned (while ignoring all other poker games, i.e. I couldn't even tell you how to play razz). Ha.
Now, I want to go hit a casino near me and play at the 1-3 and maybe 5-10 tables, but have no clue where to begin. I am going to go to Turning Stone near Syracuse, NY.
I am concerned about a few things....how good are casino players typically (I imagine several rookies being eaten alive by sharks)? How do the games typically play? I'd guess that they're rather loose. How tough do the games get as you move up the betting levels? Do any experienced people here think one would walk away with profit if one simply played tight and played the numbers? I am inclined to simply play tight, get a feel for the talent, and not go up against the "pros" too much and try to take $ from the tourists. My bottom line is to make some $. Having fun would be incidental.
Lastly, I imagine a 1-3 structure kind of puts a crimp on semi-bluffing and encourages maniacs with $ to lose... how does the low limit affect strategy?
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Posted Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:33 pm GMT by mrfloppy
I visit turning stone monthly from PA. Haven't ever played the poker tables as I've just recently started playing poker, but I'm looking to check it out as well. Might head up next week. Lemme know what you find out about them.
Posted Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:27 am GMT by Devedander
Not familiar with that casino, but I would be careful going into any casino thats attractive and busy. Where the crowd goes, the sharks go. And if it's your first time at the tables they WILL spot the sucker.
If your sure you know how the game works really well, at least watch a table or catch the WSOP on tv once before you do just to see how to wokr the chips and hand signals.
Remember:
Don't try and shuffle your chips unless you know how
Make sure you know what the betting procedures are (maybe ask the floorman about how betting, calling and raising work, nothing like being surprised that tossing a chip out there meant you raised 5000 instead of getting change and calling the 2000)
And it's true, if you don't spot the sucker in the first 30 minutes, you are the sucker.
Posted Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:01 am GMT by bangsb41
Could I use my ignorance of protocol to my advantage?
Posted Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:51 pm GMT by mindgame
I've played poker for about 30 years but just started in casinos (they're fairly new to my area) in the last 8 months. I've only played a half-dozen times, but it seems obvious that anyone who wants to make a living at poker (your "pro") isn't going to do it at a $1-$3 game or even a $10-20 one. The lowest limit game within 150 miles of me (only one casino of the 8 in that radius even has a poker room) is $5-10. Certainly no one is getting wealthy at those stakes.
The typical goal in casino play is to win 1 1/2 big bets/hour. Even at $10-20 that's a not going to make anybody a living. I've got a friend who manages 1200-1500 hours a year at the table. He's a pretty damn tough poker player and he's lucky if he makes $5000-8000/yr. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about sharks or pros or anything at all except playing a sound game. If you can read Sklansky and remember to use just half of it, from what I've seen you can play casino poker. Even the "maniacs" are managable if you can keep them to your right.
By the way, if you read much you're likely to find statistical analysis which suggests you might need 1500-2000 hours to even know if you're beating the game. Maybe that's true if you're a statistician. But I think a poker player only needs about 45 minutes to an hour. I get my $15/hr in my $5-10 game, but it's hard work. If I thought of it as job, I'd quit and find an easier line of work.
Posted Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:33 pm GMT by Whoppa8
Hey, I myself am a new player to Texas Holdem Poker and visit the Tourning Stone Casino about 2-3 times a week. Ive only been in one game so far and had pretty bad success, let me know how things go for u up there, who knows maybee ill be at your table someday.
Posted Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:07 pm GMT by Carson Cashman
Just got back from Atlantic City... played $5/$10 at the Taj and at Bally's. Both games were some of the loosest I've ever seen. There'd be an early position raise, and 5 or 6 people would call it. People would miss the flop and call anyways (because the pot odds were so absurd, I suppose).
Long story short, I came out ahead about $200 over maybe 15 hours of play time, but had to suck up some very bad beats on account of how loose the players were. (You're not going to find any real sharks at the tables, and if you do, so what. Don't be afraid. Play a solid, tight-aggressive game and you'll do just fine).
Posted Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:03 pm GMT by DDiehr
First of all, there are no "sharks" in a 1-3, or even 5-10 game. The very best players can only average about two big bets an hour. A shark isn't going to play in a game where he can expect to make $6 an hour, and if he's a real shark, $20 an hour doesn't sound much better. General rules for low-limit games are simple: play tight, don't bluff, don't draw to losing hands(somebody always has that flush, why draw to two pair or a straight), play pairs (for set draws) and suited connectors, throw away hands like K10 offsuit (you gonna need more than high cards).
As far as making money goes, you can read all the books you want (I've read eleven) but nothing compares to live game experience. In all likelihood you'll lose for the first month or two, but if you're serious and at least a little intelligent, you'll be able to beat the low-limit games and move up soon.
P.S. Don't try to move up too fast, I recently moved up from the 9/18 to the 20/40 and got destroyed. It took me three months to win what it took me 10 days to lose.
Posted Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:35 am GMT by mindgame
DDhier,
I play low limit (5-10) more successfully than I had expected (averaging $25-$40/hr). I find most of your comments right on the mark in the casino I'm in, although I would add that aggressive play can significantly impact your winnings if engaged in with a sensitivity to position and a fair grasp of individual opponent tendencies and/or good reads. I emphatically concur that the "sharks" are not feeding anywhere so close to the bottom as 3-6, 4-8, or 5-10! Solid play is all you need to hold your own and experience will turn you into a winner.
My play has sharpened up, my stake has gone from $500 to $2500, and I'm itching to try the 10-20 game. You seem to have found the shift more than a little difficult. What were the biggest differences? What was the hardest adjustment? Why did you find that just tightening up when you were getting chewed up wasn't enough to keep you from eaten alive?
Or, basically, what advice are you willing to share?
And, BTW, where do you play?
Thanks a lot,
gm
Posted Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:20 pm GMT by DDiehr
mindgame,
When I wrote that, I was playing at lucky chances outside of Frisco. Now I'm in Portland, OR. There's a small poker club in southwest Washington I play in now. The biggest game they have here is 10-20, that's where I'll spend most of my time.
The main thing at the 20-40 that was difficult was finding good games. If you weren't selective, you'd find a game with 3 genuine pros and 5 other guys at least as good as you were. They don't pay you off when you hit, and they bleed you when you don't. They can be tough to read, they can make you lay down winners and call with losers. However, if you can find a game at these limits with a few fish, they're just as easy to knock off as any other fish (if they're very rich they it can be ever easier).
As far as advice goes in moving up limits, I suggest you stay away from the biggest game in the casino (whatever size it actually is) until you're sure you're ready and have a big enough bankroll to handle the swings that come in poker. The experts say you should have between 300 and 500 small bets as a bankroll. So, to play in a 10-20 you should have between $3000 and $5000 dollars.
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