Going All-In with a Bluff? |
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Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:53 am GMT by Boom
Hey guys... new here, just got into Hold'em within the last 3 weeks or so. I play a good amount with play money (I know it's not the same, but not 18 yet  ) and also play with my friends for real money. I usually win most of the time because I practice more and read stuff on the forums.
Anyways, when we play, we play no-limit and a lot of the times- one of my friends in particular- will go all-in with a bluff. And yes, I know a LOT of people do this because usually it scares people into folding, but to me, I don't believe risking someone calling and you losing ALL your chips and being out is worth that. In our games I find that the friend who bluffs and goes all-in usually busts first and has to buy more chips (although his hardcore bluffing IS a very good tactic since I usually never know if he's bluffing or has something). For me, I've been reluctant to bet any more than 2/5ths or so of my chips while bluffing because I don't see how the loss is worth it.
Basically what I'm asking is, is it really worth it in the end to go all-in when bluffing to get the full effect of scaring people to fold? Or should I be betting high or semi-high while bluffing to maintain a few chips even if someone calls me?
When I play, I also will bluff with low pairs but usually never bluff with nothing in my hand (even an ace high). Should I be bluffing more? I guess I kinda feel that if I bluff with the low pair at least I'll have something that maybe will turn around for me on the turn or river, or will at least give me something to put up against other's hands.
Any help with this is appreciated  . I play on buying Winning Low-Limit Hold'em (2nd Edition) and studying it hard to get better (I heard it was one of the best books to read when beginning). If anyone else knows of something I should read instead, please tell me cause I dont really know which is best. I'd also love to hear any advice since you guys are the pros
Side Note: Sorry for the long post...so much stuff I'm tryin to figure out about the game right now
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Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:37 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
All in bluffing...... very tricky area.
There is no feeling like going over the top and taking down a huge pot with absolutely nothing.
However, worst feeling in the world is making this move, especially late in a tourney near the money, and getting called down 
I agree with you in that putting all your chips at risk is not a great move, but by its very nature a bluff has got to be a significant amount, or it will just be called.
The thing is, how much of your opponants stack are you putting at risk. rather than how much of yours.
If your stack is 1/5 of his and you all in, chances are you will get called.
Also i tend to find that an all in move just looks like a bluff, i dunno why it just does, whereas raising 4 or 5 times the bb or rasing more than the pot amount looks less so.
last thing, bluffing is only worth it when there is a decent amount in the pot.
too many idiots all in early in tourney play, bluffing or not, and end up taking down 30 TC .
At the end of the day you gotta be thinking....... is it worth it, and.... will i get away with it.
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:20 am GMT by jwrussell
OK, here's the thing, this move is GREAT, when, and ONLY when you have the information you need. The games you are playing in...it's almost NEVER going to be a good idea. Playing against unskilled players takes a whole set of different rules. Someone with bottom pair with multiple over cards on the board is likely to call you down, "just to keep you honest". When playing against BAD players, keep it simple. Play good hands and be prepared to show them down.
Now, if you are playing against good players who understand the game it's different. The other time it's different is if you have a read on someone. Have you been watching their play? Are they likely to lay down a hand because of a big bet? It all depends on what kind of read you have on a player (please understand I am NOT talking about tells). If he's a loose, never going to lay down if he has anything player, forget about it. If he's tight, and only playing the best hands, you can pull this off. Just remember, it's a play that only works now and then. If you do it all the time, you will start getting called. Of course, if you can get away with doing it often for a LITTLE while, then you can get people to call you when you do it with the nuts. Now THAT'S fun! 
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:13 pm GMT by Underbelly
It's funny because I have a friend who has a bad habit of going all-in on a bluff. It real funny because everyone waits for this and he always gets called and, unless he gets extremely lucky, he loses.
It's hard not to laugh.
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:30 pm GMT by Ventrick
Simple reply, never bet alot to win a little. I laugh at people who go all-in trying to steal blinds worth like 75TC. 4-6X the BB is usually enough to steal the blinds without people putting you on a bluff.
Posted Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:51 pm GMT by Underbelly
Well said Ventrick. Most all-ins are such as waste. I think people just want to say all-in.
A friend of mine, who still thinks he played this right, got a AK boat after the river. The problem was the 3A were on the board. Understand that this is the second or third hand of the tourament. He calls All-in (He was the first to bet)
You guessed it, someone held the 4th A.
He still says to this day, "I had an ace's over king boat, I had no choice!" He didn't even finish his first beer!
Some people are born to be bad card players!
Posted Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:05 pm GMT by JunkyardGod
| Underbelly wrote: | Well said Ventrick. Most all-ins are such as waste. I think people just want to say all-in.
A friend of mine, who still thinks he played this right, got a AK boat after the river. The problem was the 3A were on the board. Understand that this is the second or third hand of the tourament. He calls All-in (He was the first to bet)
You guessed it, someone held the 4th A.
He still says to this day, "I had an ace's over king boat, I had no choice!" He didn't even finish his first beer!
Some people are born to be bad card players! |
Well, when you see 3 of any card on the board, you always have to be worried about someone holding the 4th.
But when you have the full house, it's hard not to risk your money.
Posted Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:07 pm GMT by Jaded Scholar
It's a pretty tricky move, and usually you shouldn't do it. In a tournament you should only do it if you're very, very sure your opponent will fold, since then if you lose all-in just once, you're out. Optimally, in a tournament you NEVER want to be all-in.
It's way different if you have the opponent covered though, and most times if you raise a good player all-in in a tournament he will fold, he knows he can't call unless he is a big favorite.
However, out of tournaments sometimes the move can be used creatively. One time, I started to play with strangers in a NL cash game with a buy-in of just $10. I noticed everyone was playing real tight, so I moved in over the top early with J-8 offsuit, (I put him on a small pair, so I figured I was good even if called), and showed the bluff after he folded. I only won about a dollar but had everyone there thinking I was a maniac. Few hands later I pick up K-K and make the same move, get called by a guy with J-J and bust him...
Posted Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:01 am GMT by Nut Flush
How does that saying go? "All in works every time except once."
An "All In" bluff can be a powerful tool if used correctly. Just don't abuse it. I was playing a $5 sit n go last night and it only paid two places. The chip leader was literally putting us all in on every single hand. I wasn't too worried, he only had about $500 more in chips than I did. This went on for about 20 minutes, I'd raise with a decent hand and he'd go all in. The poor short stack guy could do nothing but fold every hand, he must have had pretty crappy cards. Then it happened, I got a good hand! Dealt pocket Kings on the button, so I limp in. This was the first time the maniac didn't raise. Flop comes Kxx and it checks around to me so I check as well. Turn is another rag and the maniac goes all in. I show my trip Kings and he shows his J3o! Couple hands later I busted him out when he went all in and I called with my AQs. He showed Q9o and none of us made a pair so Ace high knocked him out.
Posted Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:01 am GMT by Muck
| Ventrick wrote: | | Simple reply, never bet alot to win a little. I laugh at people who go all-in trying to steal blinds worth like 75TC. 4-6X the BB is usually enough to steal the blinds without people putting you on a bluff. |
OMG I see this soooooooo often in the low stakes on-line tourneys!
Their only thought process must be "look at all those blinds I can steal". Not "I just offer all of those players who’ve just called, a chance to go heads up against my 63os and knock me out" :
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