Posted Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:25 pm GMT by Çhý££ íñ thé Ãír
I was coming off of a great week before this closing week began. Up about $500 on the week playing $5-$10 tables. So I decided to play in a $3000 free-role. Thats where everything changed.
It started out with about 900 or so contestants. Just went through the motions hoping to get lucky on all these all-ins people were doing every freaking hand. I made it to the money in the top 90. At the time I was sitting pretty in about 4th place overall. This one person had seemed to be very luck though, going all-in almost everyhand, but he always had a low chip count. This is where the bad luck of this last week began. I don't really remember the hand all that well, but I was up on the flop with 3 of a kind. Then he pulled out 2 of his suited cards on the turn and river and flushed over me. Very Lucky, especially after I put him all-in on flop when he had crap. The next hand I made a bet on the blind with buried K 8 suited. He raised with his Ace-5 off suit. So I called that... 2 more 8's came up on the flop while he was still pairless. So I raised all in and (like a typical free-role moron) he called. And guess what comes up on the Turn and River....Aces. BAM, I'm out of the tourny with 9 measily $$ that could very well have been $700 or so.
So that luck (or lack there of) continued all week last week. Played the way I ussually do, but just got cold cards the whole freaking week and ended up $500 or so down. My best hand was 4 3's, which I folded on the blind when someone went all in, since I had 3 - 9 offsuit... It was just a horrible week, something you'd never encounter in real life. I think the program was set up to give someone better odds against other people because I've never EVER had that bad luck anywhere else. I think the program just read that I was up a lot, and gave me worse odds against everyone else to even me out. So needless to say, I'm not playing there anymore...even if I'm wrong, I'm just too discouraged.
...and thats my tale...
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:31 pm GMT by Replic
Freeroll.
FreeROLL.
A poker site would not risk millions in its revenue in order to give a single player in a free roll bad odds so they won't win. Plus it does not make sense- the money is in the pot, one way or another, someone is going to claim that $3000.
Posted Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:42 pm GMT by Çhý££ íñ thé Ãír
| Replic wrote: | Freeroll.
FreeROLL.
A poker site would not risk millions in its revenue in order to give a single player in a free roll bad odds so they won't win. Plus it does not make sense- the money is in the pot, one way or another, someone is going to claim that $3000. |
Thats not the reason why I'm not playing there anymore. I couldn't really give two sh*ts about the the FreeRoll...but the bad luck I had the rest of the week couldn't simply just be a case of bad cards. It had to be set up that way, for all the money I was making before that or something. I know the FreeRole is probably not set up in favor of anybody, someone is gunna get all the money so why do they care who? But the actual money tables I was playing on are what I'm suspiscious about.
Posted Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:53 am GMT by Replic
We've had a thousand and one accusations like this here before. Look, on online sites, enough cards are dealt to act out all probabilites. The turn and river falling ace ace is NOT IMPOSSIBLE, merely improbable. Much like rap becoming popular, we live in a world of improbable events actually happening.
Posted Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:44 am GMT by maverick34
ok there is two pairs on the table, i have pocket 2s but my friend has the high card who wins that pot
Posted Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:39 pm GMT by snoogins47
Ya know, even if online poker WERE rigged, i've never seen anybody have any real evidence for it.
All it ever is:
"I turned 100 bucks into 250 playing NL hold'em in two weeks! I'm the next Phil Helmuth!"
"I lost that 250 bucks in one week, it must be rigged."
Alright, if you played for two years winning 2.5BB/100, got into a fistfight with the online card room owner, and then lost your 700xBB bankroll playing fixed limit in 3 days... I'd be suspicious.
But until somebody gives me more than "I SWEAR I LOSE SO OFTEN MY TOP PAIR TO SOMEBODY'S GODDAM FLUSH DRAW THAT ALWAYS HITS!"
In other words...
"I WAS AT BEST THE 2 to 1 FAVORITE, AND AT TIMES MAYBE EVEN THE UNDERDOG, AND I LOST THREE OF THESE HANDS LIKE THIS FOR ALL MY MONEY, ONLINE SUCKS"
Sorry if I sound a little brash. I probably am being a bit of a jerk here. But I do feel for ya, I've been slightly suspicious of internet poker, not that it's rigged against specific players, just that it's rigged for action, because that would make very good sense. I really don't think that's the case though, I think they make quite enough as it is to justify them not taking any chances and scamming people.
By the way, I just want to note...making $500 in a week at $5-$10... how many hours did you play? Because while that's a completely feasible figure, and that might even be an average week for a 35+ hour a week player with a very, very solid WR (or somebody with a decent WR at 5 tables at once, but I digress...) if you're not just crushing the $5-$10 tables consistently over a long period of time, and not playing the equivalent of a full time job, that's beyond a great week... that's a HIGHLY IMPROBABLE upswing. Maybe the downswing that followed consisted of some very tough beats... I'm not questioning that. I'm just saying that while you have every reason to be very happy with the big week, unless you're an extremely talented, almost full-time player, that week was an astoundingly lucky one. Followed by what could've either been a week of horrible luck, a week of horrible play, a week where horrible luck turned good play into tilt...
And besides, if I'm not mistaken, your EV over the past two weeks would be 0.
That means you're even.
If you could maintain a 0 EV over the long term, you're better than an alarming number of people who think they're good at this game ;P
Posted Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:10 am GMT by suprastyxx
i like the disclaimer in your sig snoogins and i agree with what you said. i have friends that say they are good players (and they are) that are still down money in online poker. being even is definitely not a bad thing
Andrew
Posted Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:42 am GMT by JohnnyCache
I'm down a little right now, lifetime total online. I don't take online seriously enough...
Posted Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:16 am GMT by jwrussell
Well put Snoogins. I'm more worried about collusion online than I ever am about it being rigged. Here's why:
Let's take a look at a fairly low limit online, .50/$1.
The lowest table (average pot) on this particular site had an average pot of 5.66 with a hand rate of 50/hour. This particular site charges .25 rake for $5-$10 hands. Let's say 75% of the hands are raked, so we are looking at $9.38/hour in rake for this one table. There are usually, what 6 tables going (I think I'm being fairly conservative here) at all times. So that's $56.25 per hour for the .50/$1 limit. That's $1,350.72 per day earned for the site for this limit. Then consider that you still have; 1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, 10/20, 15/30 limits. And this is JUST ring Texas Hold'em games. There are all the other games the site offers and the tournaments.
Now, consider that the site I checked is relatively small compared to most of the big boys (Party Poker, Poker Stars, etc.) who probably have alot more tables going at once. Do you really think they need to cheat to make money? These guys are making money hand over fist, I doubt they are going to risk losing it all by riggin the site.
Posted Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:33 pm GMT by snoogins47
I'm sure collusion can and does happen.
I think though, that for one, it's probably not ALL that common, and 2... if it is, people surely don't know what the hell they're doing.
In order to make colluding give you a great edge, you've gotta have a healthy dose of game theory anyway.
Aside from a few very basic ideas (wait, you folded two diamonds? I'm not gonna draw to my flush anymore) or building a pot by manipulating position... Most of these people that are going to try to collude at low limits aren't going to know what to do to make it a great advantage, and when they do play their artificially produced angles, it's glaringly obvious.
"Wait a second.. I bet out with two others in the hand... it gets three-bet before it gets back to me, I call, next to act caps, and the three-bettor folds?"
However, I think most of the people who are good enough to beat the game straight up aren't going to collude just to gain a slightly better WR at the $2/$4 tables.
If somebody's good enough to play well, and good enough to make cheating give him a huge edge.... i'd imagine he's probably going to take his shot somewhere higher than the $3/$6 at partypoker.
But it's true, I'm sure there are many situations where two people you're sitting with are on the phone, divulging information.
Don't let that stop you from taking their money ;P
Posted Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:52 am GMT by Çhý££ íñ thé Ãír
Wow, very nice responses...
I'm thinking its rigged for more action, like Snoogins said. Even on other online poker sites I have never experienced anything that bad. I was playing the same way the week before and the weeks before that where I always turned a profit, even if it was only $10. I dunno, I'm not a conspiracy theororist or anything. I'm playing at a new place now, and if something like that happens again in real life or another poker place, I'll know that that site was probably not rigged...that I just had a rough week. Until then, I'm tilting! :D
Most of those $5-$10 games are multi-table tournies. I always seem to do better in those in the long run than straight up or single table tournies. I also play a few $20-$50 when I'm feeling frisky, but I like the low stakes tables for now, because thats where my skill level is currently at.
Posted Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:08 pm GMT by Always_Bored
| Çhý££ íñ thé Ãír wrote: | | I was playing the same way the week before and the weeks before that where I always turned a profit, even if it was only $10. |
that means nothing. Sometimes you just have a bad run. It happens to the best.
I would be willing to bet my entire bankroll that all major poker sites are NOT rigged.
Go play at the casino as much as you would be playing online and I bet the same swings will happen.
|
|
