Posted Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:50 pm GMT by StarlightCoast
I know the general consensus in this forum and others and the books has a great deal to do with position and thats where my question lies.
In late position there is a tendancy to play such things as suited connectors and low pocket pairs and the such but in reality if these hands have a very low chance of coming on top for you should they not be thrown away no matter where you are on the table?
The fact of the matter is if you have pocket 2's you have only 2 outs to make them trips and theres a damn good chance without the trips your done for hence the saying "If you don't make the set, don't bet" But in the long run whether on the button or under the gun aren't you better off folding and saving your money for a better hand? This same question also goes for suited connectors.
Now in the blinds I understand it to be different. Afterall you already have money invested so why not take a shot but what about the late and middle position? Seems to me it would be better just folding and waiting for something better to come along and save your money on a longshot also? All comments welcome.
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Posted Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:22 am GMT by Dave B
You J 10 in late position, flop 8 6 3, checked to you, you bet you win.
You 87 late position, flop Q 8 7, checked to you , you bet you win. Bet, raise in front of you, you fold-out of the hand cheap.
Early position you can be aggressive w/ poor hands since others can reraise. You have much less leverage, since the players behind you can force you out of poor hands (even on stone cold bluffs).
I could go on forever, but position is everything.
Posted Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:58 am GMT by jwrussell
Here's where you have to remember, you are playing position and the other players as well as the cards. If you only play the cards in Poker, you will never be a long term winner, especially in Hold'em.
Also, if you are never in a hand with suited connectors or low pairs, the other players are going to know this and will use that info against you.
Yes, you may not win with these hands as much, but generally, you will win MORE with them. Figure it this way. You hold 4,4. Flop comes 8,A,4. Guess what, you are about to (depending on the turn and river) make alot of money with anyone with an 8 or A in their hand. And you know what? NO ONE, is going to put you on the 4s (for the most part).
As Dave said, I could go on, but position is ALMOST everything in Hold'em.
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:10 am GMT by snoogins47
not to mention...
lets take A9.
Hand often worth playing.
In late position, if it folds around, you can toss in your chips, maybe even raise it up, and feel pretty comfortable.
Under the gun... you call that, and somebody raises... you've got a great chance to run into a dominated hand.
Something like suited connectors, low pocket pairs... these will tend to win their share in heads up pots, or in pots with say, 6+ people.
Under the gun, you have no clue how the hand is going to turn out.
The reason people tighten up and play only premium hands early is because they aren't just wasting money if somebody raises, etc. Play the hands that you want to take into any pot, when you can't tell what the pot is going to look like.
Basically, taking position into consideration only matters if you tailor your play to the way the hand plays out. If you only say "I'll play this in EP, this in LP," and then just plug along without thinking about it, you aren't gonna do much better than somebody who just looks at his cards.
I mean, I would tend to ditch 22 under the gun in most games.
In late position, if everybody called in front of me, I'd probably play.
If I'm on the button, four folds and two raises to me... I wouldn't think twice about folding that hand, regardless of position.
Posted Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:55 am GMT by Ventrick
Hands like suited connectors are hands that you want to play against alot of people, so when they do pay off they payoff large and not small. If you are in early position you have no clue how many callers you will have against your suited connectors. I you play them and only get 1 caller your pot odds suck. Now if you are in late position you can see what the people ahead of you did and guage whether it is worth playing your cards.
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