Posted Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:06 pm GMT by mindgame
Okay...that title's sensational, but here's the story.
I've got a friend who deals here outside Chicago. He's a great guy and when he isn't dealing you can find him playing on another boat--he loves the game. Anyway, he told me recently he's headed to Vegas soon. When I asked why he said it was mainly because dealers keep their tips there and Indiana gaming laws prohibit that. We've lost a few dealers in the last couple years--usually the very best--because of that law.
But here's where it gets interesting. He told me that for the past month or so he's been practicing "dealing Aces." I asked what he meant. He said he put the Aces in the deck face up and then dealt out hold'em games--hands and flops. He said he learned to track the Aces and drop them in the flop--he was shooting for about half the time and frequently can hit that. I haven't bothered with the calculation, but a random flop should have at least one Ace roughly 22% of the time--less of course if you're holding one. I asked him why he would bother to do this. He said "Tips."
"People hold Aces, you know that. I drop an Ace in the flop and I hit someone's hand--that gets me a tip. And Aces make big pots a lot--and that makes bigger tips."
I asked him if he could tell me where they were in the deck, and he said he couldn't, but he could keep track of roughly where they were, hand after hand, and he could easily keep the top of the deck rich in Aces--which just generates more tips.
Now this guy is not a mechanic...not even a really experienced dealer--maybe 3 or 4 years. This is just something one of the other dealers told him to work on because it builds tips in Vegas. And in very little time he got pretty damn good at it.
Really shakes my faith in the game--but poker is just a game of information and I'm sharing this becuase I want to know if anyone has noticed anything that confirms a lot of dealers doing this. If you know it's going on, you can take advantage of it.
But it sure as hell makes me happy I do most of my playing where they have automatic shufflers! (He told me there's not much he can do with those.)
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Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:30 am GMT by fatshaft
Never listen to these types of wafflers.
If it's not online casinos cheat, then it's the real thing. Tell me this, if his story was true, would any casino staff/ex-casino staff ever play inside one ever again......errr no.
The End.
signed - an ex-dealer/supervisor/pit boss/manager
Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:10 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | This is just something one of the other dealers told him to work on because it builds tips in Vegas. |
He's gonna try and pull that crap in Vegas? Not a good idea. The cameras/security not only look for customers that cheat, they focus on dealers/staff as well. Not worth losing the job and never able to step foot inside a Vegas casino again. Be a good dealer, talk with the players, show them a good time and the tips will come.
We have a dealer at our card room that is great! It's like going to a comedy show while playing cards. Now matter how much you lose, this guy makes everyone at the table laugh and smile.
Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:16 am GMT by ZIPPY
As a dealer in US and UK of BJ, Craps and Poker, I find this hard to believe..
There are always stories of dealers who can spin a roulette section, know where the face cards are in a 6 deck shoe at BJ and can place As and Ks in poker of all kinds.
The casinos I have worked in have either had two seperate decks which alternate between hands or/and are usually shemmy (I know the spelling is wrong!) shuffled, where you shuffle the cards briefly by placing them face down on the table and mix them together before riffle shuffling them and finally cutting them.
I have known dealers who profess to be able to do any of the above and have never, in very unscientific "go on then, show me" trials produced the goods.
We don't have tipping in UK to disallow this kind of collusion, and the best way to get tips is to be friendly, polite and informed.
Stateside and Onboard casinos do not allow you to actively tout for chips, as money for dealers is not money for the house.
Having a very posh english accent helped as well!!!
Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:34 am GMT by mindgame
Hey, maybe he's full of crap. Wouldn't that be delightful. We do that "shemmy" thing around here too, by the way--we call it "washing the deck." But you can scarcely ask for it on every hand.
I think I'm like every other solid player. All I want is an honest game...because that game I can beat. And I will tell you true: in 30 years of non-casino poker I've beaten every game I've ever played in. The only exceptions told me I was being cheated and when I looked for it I found it. That's the main reason I pay the rake...the casino takes less than the cheats do. But you get a little paranoid after a while, it's happened so often...and you always get burned when you think you're safe and you've let your guard down. Hence casino poker's implicit risk--you WANT to assume the game is straight....you've got other things to worry about since you are playing much tougher players.
I play outside Chicago, mostly 10/20. Any given day I have guys at the table from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, and Ohio--and only a few from Indiana where the casino is located. These aren't Chicago tourists visiting the boat--those people are throwing money overboard on slots or playing BJ and craps. I'm playing the damn All-midwest Poker All-Stars half the time. I sure don't like worrying that the game might be crooked.
Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:46 am GMT by Replic
1- As of now it's possibly to trick the cameras with sleight of hand. Blackjack dealers were recently caught after doing this for years by slipping his friend more blackjacks than usual. They only recently got caught because they realized a certain regular sat at the dealer's table more often than any other table. They never caught his sleight of hand.
2- Even with the above story in mind, you'd have to be damned good not to be caught
3- I'm sure this isn't rampant- casinos stand to lose a gaming liscense if they do nothing to stop the cheating, so they are quite serious in watching their dealers and *will* ruin his dealing career.
Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:31 pm GMT by ilikepoker
I take forever to deal in home games and people get pissed it takes me so long. But the reason I do is because I am honest. I have spent alot of time in my life with cards and know them pretty well. It doesnt take much for me to catch a split second glimse of a card.
For example my favorite card is the 4 of clubs. I know wierd card. But if my eye catches it its like a radar. I will know the basic position of that card. If I was trying to, it wouldnt be that difficult to "jog" that card to a favorable position in the deck.
Thats why I take so long to shuffle. I will continue shuffling, trying not to look at the crads whatsoever until I am confident that even subconsiously I have completely lost the card I saw in the deck. Usually its an Ace or a King, and not the 4 of clubs. My friends say just dont look! I wish it was that easy. Its just kind of second nature because of the amount of time I have spent with cards (some of the time I have spent is with slight of hand by the way).
I am thinking that maybe what he is talking about is someone else that has this unfortunate skill and tries to take it to the next level instaed of trying to counter it. I think its very possible and scary, but hopeufully by no means a norm.
Posted Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:42 pm GMT by Ben4040
| Quote: | | For example my favorite card is the 4 of clubs. |
You don't understand how weird that is because as a kid my favorite card was the 4 of clubs as well. But I wasn't really playing poker back then, usually just a game of war with my friends. Now I don't have a favorite card... unless it helps me win a hand. 
Posted Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:51 pm GMT by HoldemShark04
he may not get caught right away, but he will get caught... 
Posted Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:37 pm GMT by Vegas_Rook
What he says is no big deal. Any 1/2 arse dealer here can do much better.
If he brings, what he thinks is a little trick, to Vegas, he will find himself carted away soon.
I remember dealing once and some "newbs" were dealing and 2 of them evidentally thought this was "Rounders" or something. Next thing you know, police walk in, surprise the HELL out of them, cuff em and see ya later.
Rather funny.
Trust me, those of us who got "into" dealing at some point know how to do all sorts of fun stuff. We only do it off-time :D
Posted Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:09 am GMT by mindgame
So you're saying that this isn't at all far-fetched; that indeed dealers can do all kinds of stuff. And you've worked the tables, walked the talk, and know what the hell you're talking about.
But we aren't supposed to worry about that? That kind of shit keeps me up at night, man. One huge hand a night...one mega pot that gets capped 3 times with 5 people in it...and the thought that it might be rigged--you're shaking me up.
Posted Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:19 am GMT by Dave B
You worry a lot mindgame. STOP IT! RELAX! No online, now worrying about casinos too?
When gambling there is always a danger that we will be involved in a game w/ shadey operations. Whether it is signals to a buddy at the opposite end of the table, bad dealers, online collusion. If there is money to make, people will try to cheat.
If you ask me, online, right now, might be the SAFEST place to play. Multitables have over 1000 people. 30,000-50,000 people online, the odds of running cheats is there, but I will take my chances. If something doesnt look right, I can easily move.
At the casino I play at, 30-40 tables, lots of players, but still always 2-4 players per table that are awefully friendly with one another. They all know eachothers game and could easily decide to take it a step further.
My point is this, I AM going to be cheated from time to time. So I watch for what I can, but as long as I am still making money I am certainly not going to quit.
Posted Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:38 am GMT by mindgame
Okay, you're right. And I know you're right. But how many times have you argued with your wife even when you knew she was right and you just couldn't give it up? But just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that people AREN'T out to get me! 
Posted Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:41 am GMT by Dave B
No, actually the I am always right when I fight with the wife. When I am wrong, there is never an argument. Though I am always right, I still lose every time.
Reason 341 to play poker: there is always a clear winner and loser. No gray area.
Posted Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:58 am GMT by Geno
| ZIPPY wrote: | | Having a very posh english accent helped as well!!! |
Did it help u pick up American hotties too?
Posted Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:23 pm GMT by Vegas_Rook
mindgame, yes and yes.
I only speak of Vegas. If you come here, don't worry about it. I can't speak for any dealer in any other place. Remember, Vegas is the "A" list, the major leagues if you will as far as these things go.
The changes of a dealer cheating in Vegas and getting away with it for more than 10 minutes are probably .00000001%.
However, the chances of collusion in an online game are high. It is extremely easy for ONE person to have multiple computers and accounts at a place and site in on one game. In fact, you could have 9 going and just beat down the ONE who sits in for all he/she is worth. This stuff scares me.
As far as B&M in Vegas, don't worry :D
Posted Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:07 am GMT by ZIPPY
I even had a badge made that said "Stuart, The Lord Stamford" which was always a winner.
Yes, I can recommend it as a way of cementing special relationships with our american friends, so to speak!
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