Posted Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:02 am GMT by Leo McDermott
No... Not Bill Clinton, although the world would be a better place without him, below is why I hate big slick. Everyone says that it's a top 10 and sometimes top 5 hand in NL Hold 'em... I don't see it. Feel free to add input or constructive criticism...
Hand #487868-154 at Sun4amNL-02 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 05/Oct/03 05:38:03
pmmurphy4 is at seat 1 with 3135.
StackEmHigh is at seat 2 with 5795.
kevin_whitt is at seat 3 with 2950.
takitezonme10 is at seat 4 with 4790.
BlueSmoke is at seat 5 with 4735.
darthdidulous is at seat 6 with 4670.
Leo McDermott is at seat 7 with 2325.
tony63 is at seat 8 with 8345.
MAG992003 is at seat 9 with 4730.
The button is at seat 4.
BlueSmoke posts the small blind of 100.
darthdidulous posts the big blind of 200.
pmmurphy4: -- --
StackEmHigh: -- --
kevin_whitt: -- --
takitezonme10: -- --
BlueSmoke: -- --
darthdidulous: -- --
Leo McDermott: Kc Ad
tony63: -- --
MAG992003: -- --
Pre-flop:
Leo McDermott calls. tony63 folds. MAG992003 folds.
pmmurphy4 folds. StackEmHigh calls. kevin_whitt
calls. takitezonme10 folds. BlueSmoke calls.
darthdidulous raises to 1200. Leo McDermott goes
all-in for 2325. StackEmHigh folds. kevin_whitt
folds. BlueSmoke folds. darthdidulous calls.
Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:
darthdidulous shows Qh Qs.
Leo McDermott shows Kc Ad.
Flop (board: 5h 9h Jc):
(no action in this round)
Turn (board: 5h 9h Jc Ts):
(no action in this round)
River (board: 5h 9h Jc Ts 7h):
(no action in this round)
Showdown:
darthdidulous has Qh Qs 9h Jc Ts: a pair of queens.
Leo McDermott has Kc Ad 9h Jc Ts: ace high.
Hand #487868-154 Summary:
No rake is taken for this hand.
darthdidulous wins 5250 with a pair of queens.
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:04 am GMT by highscty
I try not *hate* hands, atleast without logic. Ak is a good hand, a very good hand. Obviously qq is a better hand.... a much better hand. Personally, I don't go all in with Ak. In your perspective I would have either folded or called. It depends on who this darth is. Does he only play good hands? Does he go all in with kx? Do you not know? Use those notes that ub provides 
Posted Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:57 am GMT by Poker_Vendetta
Yes, I believe big slick is outplayed in some instances. Obviously it is not a made hand preflop, and although you had two overcards it is really a coin flip...a coin flip you may lose, and thus lose money. Why didn't ya raise those?
Posted Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:50 am GMT by Geno
| highscty wrote: | | I try not *hate* hands, atleast without logic. Ak is a good hand, a very good hand. Obviously qq is a better hand.... a much better hand. Personally, I don't go all in with Ak. In your perspective I would have either folded or called. It depends on who this darth is. Does he only play good hands? Does he go all in with kx? Do you not know? Use those notes that ub provides |
I wouldn't rank QQ above AK, I'd treat them as about even personally although I wouldn't get too excited over either....
Posted Sun Oct 05, 2003 12:27 pm GMT by highscty
Well purely based on math, qq has a better chance to win against ak. If your going heads up, the qq has the big advantage. In a full game, and multiway action, you will often get outdrawn.
Posted Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:34 am GMT by JimiHWannaBe
i like it its a good hand to raise with preflop but if you get alot of betting on the flop its an easy hand to get away from unlike the AA or KK where if you dont get all your money in before the flop you almost always pot obligated and could lose a big pot.
Posted Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:04 pm GMT by racquet000
Wasn's this one of the hands at the final table in the WSOP 03'. AK v. QQ. QQ was a 51% favorite. So yeah its basicly a coin flip. O yeah and upon watching that for the foruth time. I realy dislike moneymaker i dont think he is a great player. He made stupid calls and landed a ton of bad beats. ok im done. :D
Posted Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:39 am GMT by saper88aa
big slick is a bittersweet hand.You have a great hand preflop,but if you miss on the flop you have most likley bet big and it is kinda hard to get away with so much in.
Posted Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:32 am GMT by Adam Marshall
Ak vs QQ is 51%? That can't be right, can it? Did someone fold a Q or something?
Chance of getting an ace, a king, or combinations or multiples of them is 50.32%, and that's not even counting the chance that the Q will show up, which is something like 19.94%. I say hmmmm.
Since I got the calculator out here's a fun fact. If you have AK the chance of getting a pair or better (not board pairs) on the flop is 32.4% not counting flushes or straights.
Maybe I should move this post over to the Odds section eh?
Posted Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:02 pm GMT by racquet000
Maybe it was suited i realy have no clue but i know QQ was a 51% favorite. I think i migth have it on tape only problem is i dont want to watch 14 hours of video to find one hand... 
Posted Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:01 pm GMT by Poker_Vendetta
Yes, according to stats from well--TV, any pocket pair is a slight favorite against AK. I THINK if AK misses the flop the chance of them making it on the turn/river is about the same chance as flopping a set. So, knowing this stat, I think Moneymaker's call against Boyd in the WSOP was even more amazing...Anyway you both played it correctly IMO. But you know, I think I'd rather have a pocket pair in the situation. You can flop a set and end it right there and I'd rather lose by being outflopped opposed to having to PRAY to hit something to win. Tough break.
Posted Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:33 am GMT by JimTheBullet
I thought it was well established fact that a pocket pair is a slight favourite to win against any two overcards. The exact odds vary depending on what the two overcards are and what the pair is. I think the odds go between the pair being a 54% favourite to a 51% favourite (but I don't have the exact odds here at work).
It is easy to see why the odds vary, the overcards could be suited or not and they could be connectors or not (for example 55 vs A9). AK is more likely (though I couldn't tell you the exact figures) to beat QQ, JJ or TT than any other pocket pair because if the pocket pair makes trips on the flop this card will form part of Broadway and hence increase the chances that slick will win by making a straight. If the pocket pair is 99 or lower then the card that makes trips will not contribute to a straight draw for slick.
In terms of whether AK is a top ten hand or not, every book I have read rates it as such and a lot of books place it third in the list, behind only AA and KK. This is because, like QQ, it is only dominated by AA and KK. The worst dog it can be (assuming no AA or KK) is very slight. I assume the reason why it is considered by many to be better than QQ is because AK contains two of the cards that can contribute to the hands that dominate it whilst QQ contains none of the cards that can be used to dominate it.
Posted Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:41 am GMT by JimTheBullet
Sorry, one thing I forgot to say.
Slick obviously needs to hit the board to win usually. However, if you are in a hand and you don't hit the flop you will often still be winning, particularly if the board is rags. The trouble is that, unless you know your opponents very well, you will find it very difficult to know when you are winning having not conected.
For this reason, I think Slick is a great hand to be all in and called before the flop with. If you are short stacked people will often call you with AQ, AJ, AT or even Ax if you are really short and they have chips. Slick dominates all of these hands and often wins without a king or ace on the board in these situations.
One final word about slick which nobody has pointed out. If you have it, it is the only hand in Holdem whose kicker cannot be counterfeited. You often see split pots where the board is an ace with a high card (king or queen) and another pair. Players holding Ax will split this pot with aces up and the kicker on the board. If you hold AK you will win these pots outright because you will either out kicker your opponent (when the kicker on board is lower than a king) or you will have a better second pair if the board kicker is another king.
Posted Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:56 pm GMT by nicthestick
in the above example, the QQ is a 57.3% favorite over AK off suit. Thats a tough one on what to do. All in or muck. both are good plays, i guess it depends on the point in the tournament and where you sit, how you are playing, and how dude has been playing. I hate putting all my chips at risk on a draw to a bigger stack, early in a tournament, for obvious reasons. no real point to this ramble, just typing. 
Posted Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:45 pm GMT by karasz
i wouldnt mind AK everytime but thats just me
Posted Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:52 pm GMT by mike_z
just to put in my 2 cents .. you played it badly. you dont raise all in with AK .. after all AK is a drawing hand. if this dude raises you 1200 and he's been playing like he knows what hes doing, you gotta place him on a high pair (Js or better). when it comes down to the meat of it, AK vs QQ, JJ, or TT is almost a 50/50 toss up like nic (i think) said due to teh fact you need to hit a A or K to win and because the other guys hand is already made. so all in all .. AK is AN AWESOME hand if you know how to play it, you should have called his 1200 bet and saw the flop .. noticed that the flop did not help and folded since he woulda prolly pushed with the top pair. once you see the flop, your chance of makin an A or K is roughly 36% which is now lower than the original 50/50 toss up. next time .. call or fold .. don't reraise. ALSO, on top of everything what if he was playing AA? dont hate AK cause you played it wrong.
Posted Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:56 pm GMT by mike_z
correction .. the chances of making a pair with AK on a rag flop is roughly 24% (6 outs 3  and 3  * 4 from the 4/2 rule = 24%). now your chances lower from 50 to 25 .... i bet you wouldn't call that all in
|
|
